When are we supposed to stop fighting?

[Lyth]

...

No, my comment is honest. But I'm truly glad that you in particular showed up to own up to it.

You're absolutely entitled to express whatever comments and opinions that you wish. Society, in turn, is entitled to judge you for them. Outside of that, there's really nothing else to be said about your comments that's still relevant to this thread. Good day.

[Pofruin]

Why did everyone who read that thread expect me to be an exemplar for them, without analyzing themselves? The onus is not entirely on me to make hospitable posts 24/7 and somehow change the forum, especially when I've been insulted too. I think it took only a week for someone to try to leverage my creation of that thread against me in an argument, because I responded in kind to someone who put me down. You can believe I'm a hypocrite or double minded or whatever you want, but just because I espoused the desire for the forum to be better doesn't mean I'll sit and take insults, insinuated or otherwise. It also doesn't mean that I'm perfect. Part of the reason that I created that thread, was that people from the forum who communicate with me outside of the forum told me I wasn't considered a problem poster. I wanted to see if it was true, and I also wanted to see what people thought constituted bad faith.

In the end, I didn't learn very much, other than there's a lot of old grudges in this sub forum. There's almost no introspective posters here. Most people here believe they aren't part of the problem, and do little in the way of offering solutions to stop arguments/derailment. I try and I fail. I'm sure I'm a laughingstock. But I am earnest, and I am open.

It appears that some amount of apologies is in order. My point was that creation of bad faith thread indicated desire for more fruitful and civil discussion. While quoted post contains nearly exclusively condescension towards other poster. This causes dissonance to me. Nevertheless it is unfair to pile the overall forums bad dynamis on you. The snarling roars of Blasphemies affect as all and sometimes we ourself are the snarling beasts. Thankfully in our case transformations are not final.

To answer the both points of this of discussions and Op of the thread. The Fighting never ends. Not while we live. In game lore death is merely setback due to lifestream. So until heat death of the Universe. And even then it's on assumptions that Ea are correct and it's is the end and after it happens nothing else WILL. Perhaps its Hope speaking but it seemed to me that once they got their result they stopped research of further happenings and put all their efforts into attempt to find the way to prevent it. Perhaps there is nothing to prevent. The universe will end. The next will begin :P.

[EaraGrace]

I really don’t understand this notion the ancients didn’t know suffering until the final days when we have so much proof it isn’t true.

The phrase “to reclaim the perfect paradise we once had” comes to mind. Clearly many were of the mind that suffering was not a thing.



What suffering existed was minor, and limited to a handful of people.

But I don't think anyone has bad vision, in terms of looking at the story. I do think you, and others, do not care to look beyond what pleases you with regards to characters and their stories. I don't understand why or how.

I don't focus on the rosy parts of the story when I post, because the story already focused on them. Hoping I wouldn't think too hard about all of it. Sometimes, I wish I ruminated less over it, but that's not me.

I ruminate a great deal on the less happy parts of the story, the moral quandaries and the issues at play. All the paths to me end in the same conclusion, an opinion clearly not shared by all.

[Theodric]

No, my comment is honest. But I'm truly glad that you in particular showed up to own up to it.

You're absolutely entitled to express whatever comments and opinions that you wish. Society, in turn, is entitled to judge you for them. Outside of that, there's really nothing else to be said about your comments that's still relevant to this thread. Good day.

I rather suspect that whatever it is you are implying about me is rooted in misconceptions and stretches to reach a particular conclusion. Feel free to provide some evidence - especially since contrary to your post, there is nothing to 'own up to'.

I also think it's utterly bizarre to proclaim that society would judge someone for their likes and dislikes in a fictional setting. As if those likes or dislikes would even be considered 'right' or 'wrong' by any reasonable measure. It's fiction. It doesn't exist.

[KizuyaKatogami]

The phrase “to reclaim the perfect paradise we once had” comes to mind. Clearly many were of the mind that suffering was not a thing.



What suffering existed was minor, and limited to a handful of people.



I ruminate a great deal on the less happy parts of the story, the moral quandaries and the issues at play. All the paths to me end in the same conclusion, an opinion clearly not shared by all.

People keep repeating that line, but we need to actually use context for it. Compared to the mass suffering and horrible circumstances they were facing, their world before it occurred truly was a perfect paradise compared to what they had experienced. It’s subjective as to how each player will take it but that’s how i’ve taken it since i first read it. It goes along with the whole, you never really cherish something until it’s gone, kind of along the lines of that. It’s a comparison.I really don’t think you can jump to a conclusion that the suffering was minor. Especially given the side quests. We also don’t even know about the other societies so to say that and jump to that conclusion is a bit much.

Something to note about the elpis flowers btw, is that they cant easily be affected by aetheric density from what we're told. Its not really to do with them not having a range of emotions.

[Lyth]

????

I can see that you're frustrated with a lot of things. That's unfortunate. I'm simply telling you unambiguously that your comments about Venat aren't relevant to this particular discussion and are derailing the conversation in this thread. Hope that clarifies things for you. If not, you have my regards and best wishes, from an extreme distance.

...

I think that the term that you're looking for is resilience. Remember that the reference point here is our own lives. You're being told by the story that the hardship that you, as an average human being, experience on a daily basis is apparently the equivalent of playing on extreme difficulty to the Ancients. I don't know about you, but it sounds like they could do with a bit more resilience.

[Theodric]

I can see that you're frustrated with a lot of things. That's unfortunate. I'm simply telling you unambiguously that your comments about Venat aren't relevant to this particular discussion and are derailing the conversation in this thread. Hope that clarifies things for you. If not, you have my regards and best wishes, from an extreme distance.

I rather suspect that you know very little about me in actuality and I would humbly suggest that you avoid making such assumptions. I'm sure many around these parts are well acquainted with the concept of 'concern trolling', however, so I don't doubt that they'll be able to see what is really going on here.

As for Venat? Well, Venat is very relevant to the thread's premise given that the character in question is the reason why so many individual characters and factions within the game's story are subjected to various events.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I can see that you're frustrated with a lot of things. That's unfortunate. I'm simply telling you unambiguously that your comments about Venat aren't relevant to this particular discussion and are derailing the conversation in this thread. Hope that clarifies things for you. If not, you have my regards and best wishes, from an extreme distance.

I think that the term that you're looking for is resilience. Remember that the reference point here is our own lives. You're being told by the story that the hardship that you, as an average human being, experience on a daily basis is apparently the equivalent of playing on extreme difficulty to the Ancients. I don't know about you, but it sounds like they could do with a bit more resilience.

I don’t see how they could do with a bit more resilience. Considering that they survived the final days i’d say they’re pretty resilient enough. They relied on their own people to do so, whereas we needed to rely on the ancients for help.

[Lyth]

I mean, you could argue that we're the same set of souls as the Ancients so it's all the same, but resilience isn't merely an inherited property of a person. It's shaped by your experiences. Were the Ancients made stronger by the Final Days? Undoubtedly so.

I don't think that receiving help and support from others makes you less resilient. If anything, having a robust system of social supports makes you even more so.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I mean, you could argue that we're the same set of souls as the Ancients so it's all the same, but resilience isn't merely an inherited property of a person. It's shaped by your experiences. Were the Ancients made stronger by the Final Days? Undoubtedly so.

I don't think that receiving help and support from others makes you less resilient. If anything, having a robust system of social supports makes you even more so.

It’s up to subjective tastes i suppose, but for me personally, i see that if you need to rely on higher up people to assist you in things, that shows you’re less resilient than they may be, especially in this situation, as if it weren’t for them we wouldn’t have succeeded in the first place whereas on the other hand they seemed to have been well off without us.