Summoner rework is a huge dissapointment

[Rolder50]

Anyway, don't y'all think there's way too many SMN threads?

The squeaky wheel gets the grease, as the saying goes.

[dinnertime]

I do love all of the praise red mage is suddenly getting. 2 expansions ago and people were saying exactly the same thing about red mage. Flashy with zero depth

Because the little rework it got (Changes to Acceleration and Manafication, Enchanted melee actions costing less, the new Mana Stack gauge that makes it more flexible to use Verholy and Verflare etc.) gave it more depth than before.

Red Mage prior wasn't even as simple and lacking depth as 6.0 SMN. Lol

[Mondschnee]

SMN has its issues, but it’s astounding how many posts have been made, especially with the job being more popular than its ever been.

Many people are still leveling SMN because it's considered a "new" job and they wanna try it out. Just because they're playing it doesn't mean they're happy with it. Even I still play it but am I happy? Not really.
It's by no means representative, but in the forums I've been in, quite some people ended up disappointed with the rework upon reaching level cap, for various reasons.

Personally I agree with OP's post 100 %. The new SMN lacks flexibility, depth and buildup. I really hope something can be done about it, and hopefully not only in 2 years :/

[Grimoire-M]

Many people are still leveling SMN because it's considered a "new" job and they wanna try it out. Just because they're playing it doesn't mean they're happy with it. Even I still play it but am I happy? Not really.
It's by no means representative, but in the forums I've been in, quite some people ended up disappointed with the rework upon reaching level cap, for various reasons.

Personally I agree with OP's post 100 %. The new SMN lacks flexibility, depth and buildup. I really hope something can be done about it, and hopefully not only in 2 years :/

The easiest path for that, if SE wanted to do it, is to revert some of what was lost from prior iterations. Here's what would be reasonable:
-1) Bring back DoTs and Bane.
-2) Make Summons oGCD.
-3) Add more Aetherflow and Enkindle Bahamut/Phoenix charges. I'm okay with these individually doing less if I get to press them more overall.
-4) We can't really use Ruin IV that much but a second or third charge would actually help out with oGCD Summons and the opener.
-5) We should straight up ditch Energy Drain/Siphon and bring back Aetherflow itself as an action so that we can let the Demi-Summons be independent again. This is just to fix the current issue of Summoner's getting their burst screwed by downtime and raid-buff alignment.
- 6) Obviously, nerf some of the current potencies so that we can make appropriate room for these mechanics. They're not enough of a barrier to justify moving Summoner's DPS up beyond where it is now (Hardcasting is the main thing holding us back there), but they would make it feel more fun to play, and that's the immediate goal.


There's also some things we explicitly cannot do:
-1) Can't bring back Egi Assaults or Tri-Disaster. They're clutter and Egi straight up do not work with this rotation. I'm okay accepting that loss.
-2) While I do miss hardcasting a lot, Ruin III can't be reworked without breaking something in the opener. The above is a good compromise.

[remiff]

The easiest path for that, if SE wanted to do it, is to revert some of what was lost from prior iterations. Here's what would be reasonable:
-1) Bring back DoTs and Bane.
-2) Make Summons oGCD.
-3) Add more Aetherflow and Enkindle Bahamut/Phoenix charges. I'm okay with these individually doing less if I get to press them more overall.
-4) We can't really use Ruin IV that much but a second or third charge would actually help out with oGCD Summons and the opener.
-5) We should straight up ditch Energy Drain/Siphon and bring back Aetherflow itself as an action so that we can let the Demi-Summons be independent again. This is just to fix the current issue of Summoner's getting their burst screwed by downtime and raid-buff alignment.
- 6) Obviously, nerf some of the current potencies so that we can make appropriate room for these mechanics. They're not enough of a barrier to justify moving Summoner's DPS up beyond where it is now (Hardcasting is the main thing holding us back there), but they would make it feel more fun to play, and that's the immediate goal.


There's also some things we explicitly cannot do:
-1) Can't bring back Egi Assaults or Tri-Disaster. They're clutter and Egi straight up do not work with this rotation. I'm okay accepting that loss.
-2) While I do miss hardcasting a lot, Ruin III can't be reworked without breaking something in the opener. The above is a good compromise.

The concern is that the current design prevents any concept of casting, so it would be necessary to do a rather massive rework, which they don't do it because they are convinced that the summoner is in perfect state.

at least not before 7.0

[Vainbaal]

I agree with OP, the job feels unfinished and rushed to meet the deadline of the Job Action Trailer, since there was no mention of a job rework until they showed off the new actions. Taking a look at what Summoner has, the Raiding Rotation is near complete at level 22, since you have the Aethercharge (teaches to RuinIII spam in Bahamut/Red Bahamut) you have your 3 Summons (Ruby, Topaz, Emerald) all that is missing is Ruin IV, Searing Light, and the Astral Flow + Enkindle Buttons. Which all of these skill buttons are just a press once and done abilities and does not require any skill to blend into the main core rotation. It does not leave a good feeling when you know that the Job you Main can be reduced to a 1 button macro.

As for all this "Good Base" statements there is no "Base" for Summoner right now. A base would indicate that more Unique Action/Spells can be added into the job, however given how tight the rotation is already not really much outside of OGCs or Button Swaps (IE. Ruin III > Ruin V) can or will be given to Summoner in 7.0, and that does not fit the definition of adding in new skills. A Base also suggests that there are layers of complexity built within the job that requires the players to put in effort to master. And within Summoner right now there is no such complexity just situational differences on when to use what and that is more requiring knowledge of a fight which all jobs are required to have in order to clear, rather than it being an in-depth execution of skill.

This is why I am hoping for some form of rework (and announcing it ahead this time) in place to fix the underlying issues. Of course, it will not be till 7.0 for a full rework and will have to deal with job action adjustments till then in the 6.X patches. To note I am not saying Summoner needs to go back to the DoT style of 5.X (even though it was fun to play), but I would appreciate a bit of complexity like the other casters (BLM has Juggling the timer and thunder procs /RDM does mathematic additions with Black and White mana pools +proc management, and both have skill resources [ie. Acceleration and Sharpcast] to manage). It can be as simple as having the elemental magics play off each other causing different effects or even empower Bahamut granting Flare Breath(Ifrit), Earthshaker(Titan), and Tempest Wing(Garuda). Summoner could use a bit more in the thematic department as well. As FFXIV claims a Summoner to be "A Mage that commands a biddable Avatar of the Primals." So, with the Primal/Egi just jumping in for a single hit and leaving does not fully fit to what FFXIV defined as a Summoner, even if it meets with past Final Fantasy Summoner Job actions.

At the end of the day, I just want to see Summoner to be more than just a Casual Job and offer a wider range of experiences for players for those who want to master it in difficult content.

[Anvaire]

The easiest path for that, if SE wanted to do it, is to revert some of what was lost from prior iterations. Here's what would be reasonable:
-1) Bring back DoTs and Bane.
-2) Make Summons oGCD.
-3) Add more Aetherflow and Enkindle Bahamut/Phoenix charges. I'm okay with these individually doing less if I get to press them more overall.
-4) We can't really use Ruin IV that much but a second or third charge would actually help out with oGCD Summons and the opener.
-5) We should straight up ditch Energy Drain/Siphon and bring back Aetherflow itself as an action so that we can let the Demi-Summons be independent again. This is just to fix the current issue of Summoner's getting their burst screwed by downtime and raid-buff alignment.
- 6) Obviously, nerf some of the current potencies so that we can make appropriate room for these mechanics. They're not enough of a barrier to justify moving Summoner's DPS up beyond where it is now (Hardcasting is the main thing holding us back there), but they would make it feel more fun to play, and that's the immediate goal.


There's also some things we explicitly cannot do:
-1) Can't bring back Egi Assaults or Tri-Disaster. They're clutter and Egi straight up do not work with this rotation. I'm okay accepting that loss.
-2) While I do miss hardcasting a lot, Ruin III can't be reworked without breaking something in the opener. The above is a good compromise.

Im sorry but i dont agree with some this. Dots and Aetherflow should have gone. The previous dots were just there and every attempt to synergize failed. Effectively all bringing dots back would achieve is reignite the identity crisis that this rework finally resolved. Summons being gcd works, but what we need is a change to how they mechanically function.

Ruin IV is best used for ifrit movement or placed between end of ifrit and next summon if it wasnt needed.

I have zero issue with energy drain siphon except that fester needs to be updated to be more thematic.

But overall the biggest change is to diversity the rotation within the summons themselves, have them build up to something, and to add something to manage. I dont think these can be achieved from bolting on dots and bane, or old aetherflow. They are relics of the old summoner, and ones iam glad finally went.

The one change i would make is to make the twerking carbuncle stay permamently. There is zero reason for it to despawn given that it never attacks and its soul purpose is to use Aegis its Damage buff.

[tearagion]

Im sorry but i dont agree with some this. Dots and Aetherflow should have gone. The previous dots were just there and every attempt to synergize failed.

I'm not going to advocate for DoTs to come back, I'd rather the next caster be a DoT focussed one, but come on synergy? You know what doesn't have synergy? Every single ability in the 6.0 SMN's tool kit. Searing light is the only thing that has any kind of impact on any other ability and it's just a raidbuff. DoTs in every iteration of SMN had more synergy with the kit than any ability now.

[remiff]

Personally I don't expect much from 6.1, apart from fixes on carbuncles buff/shield

maybe a cooldown réduction for energy drain/siphon 60s-> 30s
with potency adjustement.

and maybe the r4 stack return for more flexibility .

[BaconBits]

Solid foundation at level 90, y'all crack me up.

Quick and dirty repost.