Current top 100th percentile on P1S since 6.08 buffs

[Aikaal]

-snip-

Ok but back in Stormblood, Machinist and Bards were the one gaining all the extra damage from Piercing Debuff when it should have been a taxe to give to the Dragoon. They made the change in ShB because Dancer was a living single player padding machine.



To me, aDPS is simply the raw number you did including all buffs. rDPS is your real DPS after they distributed the extra damage you did from toher buffs. Pure firepower jobs do great because all they bring is power. That didn't exist in stormblood. You can see this log, there is only DPS, no rDPS and no aDPS. My Piercing debuff damage buff on the bard. All that extra damage I provided as a Dragoon was give to the Bard.

Stormblood FFlogs

That's why back in 4.x, BLM and SAM were never picked. Because the logs made them look bad. If you look at that log, how much lower that BRD would be? He's 82th and the NIN is 83th percentile, only 100 DPS lower. Remember, that's with 5% of my piercing debuff so that's like 250 DPS lower. Fun stuff, Ranged Physical were kinda doing that amount of damage in ShB, lower damage without piercing debuff. Ranged Phys was never compensated for the lost of Piercing Debuff. I personally loathed having to play DRG just to make another job better because his log was suddenly orange because of me and not having me be credited. That's why I went MNK.

I looked at the top 10 speed kills for each savage boss and totalled the amount of times each job appear across the 50 fights

Data reads as JOB - Number of times in top 10 / that number as a % of overall top 50

SAM - 14 / 28%
DRG - 11 / 22%
NIN - 6 / 12%
MNK - 29 / 58%
RPR - 40 / 80%

BLM - 26 / 52%
RDM - 20 / 40%
SMN - 4 / 8%

MCH - 0 / 0%
DNC - 14 / 28%
BRD - 36 / 72%

DRK - 48 / 96%
GUN - 39 / 78%
PLD - 2 / 40%
WAR - 11 / 22%

WHM - 5 /10%
SCH - 29 / 58%
AST - 35 / 70%
SGE - 31 / 62%

Overall for casters (the role i know the most) i think theres a surprisingly large amount of red mages in these kills (at least more than i expected anyways). If SMN was increased to sit inbetween BLM and RDM then you would potentially see SMN canablise spots from BLM and RDM and end up with a fairly healthy caster split.

Theres no hope for machinist however.

The average party comp is currently exactly 2 melee / 1 caster / 1 ranged which suggests that people have mostly taken 1 ranged and caster for the role buff (or the lack of good 2nd options exist from those roles)

Not surprised there. People play with meta in mind more than fun factor when you optimize speed clears. RDM is lower DPS than BLM but is still extremely viable. SMN is just a mess. MCH is just dead since 5.0. DNC got a breath of fresh air. MNK/RPR Melee duo is the meta.

I think 40% for 2 runs on PLD is wrong lol, but yeah. Tank meta for DPS is GNB/DRK anyways. Only healers has some variety since AST/SAG, AST/SCH and SCH/SAG works. With an advantage to SCH.

[Blutiful]

Ok but back in Stormblood, Machinist and Bards were the one gaining all the extra damage from Piercing Debuff when it should have been a taxe to give to the Dragoon. They made the change in ShB because Dancer was a living single player padding machine.



To me, aDPS is simply the raw number you did including all buffs. rDPS is your real DPS after they distributed the extra damage you did from toher buffs. Pure firepower jobs do great because all they bring is power. That didn't exist in stormblood. You can see this log, there is only DPS, no rDPS and no aDPS. My Piercing debuff damage buff on the bard. All that extra damage I provided as a Dragoon was give to the Bard.

Couple things.

It doesn't matter what ADPS is to you, what ADPS actually is is defined right there in the article I linked that you absolutely hadn't read, because you obviously didn't know ADPS wasn't what was used back then, because you claimed it was, and you're now trying to play it off as if you already knew. The raw number you did, including all buffs, is your DPS, and yes, that is what Stormblood and earlier used, as I included in my original post, but it is not ADPS. ADPS is a different metric that excludes single target padding, and in the post I quoted, of you, you were trying to say ADPS is a bad metric because of single target padding, which it excludes. You were just outright wrong, lol.

Also, you continue to cite the example of the Dragoon piercing debuff, and yes, if RDPS had existed back then, the RDPS would have been given to the dragoon - but that doesn't explain why you're in this topic insisting to people ADPS is something ADPS isn't. You can't make up your own definition for this term.

Before you start to cite numbers, learn how to read them.

As for this thread overall's original purpose, lol balancing complaints around max parses on a 100% uptime dummy fight, the literal day of the balance patch.

[Aikaal]

-snip-

Ok?

Honestly rDPS is the main focus, not aDPS. Like, people aren't going to care specifically about aDPS. Like, I know my AST in group will save his single target cards on my 60s and 180s because unlike the BRD, I have Phoenix up on my SMN and it provides a crap ton more damage at the current time because my AST is a smart cookie and he knows where the taxes are juicier. Same for melee cards, they go to the MNK but RoF is a 60s CD. aDPS is extremely specific and rDPS is just better to look at.

Now, care to go back on the topic? It's not that I didn't check, it's I elected to ignore your point because it didn't matter to the topic which is, that Ranged Physical and caster is currently unbalanced and even if you were to put a MCH with a SMN in the same party and MCH is a pure firepower DPS. SMN would benefit more on the 60s on personal buffs because SMN DPS is a rollercoaster. It has high peaks and low peaks.

Also, not a single target buffer expert myself, I don't play AST anyways.

[Kabooa]

Ok?

Honestly rDPS is the main focus, not aDPS. Like, people aren't going to care specifically about aDPS.

Each category has merit, which is why they are included.

NDPS is a good measure of a job's raw strength in a pug scenario, as it's solely your own ability to play the job minus buffs. This was added recently because it's harder to determine whether a job like Black Mage and a job like Red Mage stack up in uncoordinated groups / PF play.

RDPS is a good measure of a job's overall strength, which is why it's the primary metric used for FFLogs.

ADPS is a good measure for a player capitalizing on party buff windows, because both R/NDPS generally favor selfish play for non-buffing jobs, which is less useful if your goal is optimization.

[Aikaal]

Each category has merit, which is why they are included.

NDPS is a good measure of a job's raw strength in a pug scenario, as it's solely your own ability to play the job minus buffs. This was added recently because it's harder to determine whether a job like Black Mage and a job like Red Mage stack up in uncoordinated groups / PF play.

RDPS is a good measure of a job's overall strength, which is why it's the primary metric used for FFLogs.

ADPS is a good measure for a player capitalizing on party buff windows, because both R/NDPS generally favor selfish play for non-buffing jobs, which is less useful if your goal is optimization.

Yeah xD I knew that already, I don't need the definition on fflogs to tell me I'd better hold my bursts for jobs with single target buffs. I curse myself to have never hold 4 festers on 2 minute buffs windows. Buffs also amplify each other. aDPS does have merit but for a job, lets say BLM or SAM, me knowing my actual DPS without single target buff doesn't really tell me anything. That information is more for DRG/DNC/AST and, quite frankly, they probably should educate those DPS that it's important for them! That's optimizing talk anyways.

[Kazimere]

Each category has merit, which is why they are included.

NDPS is a good measure of a job's raw strength in a pug scenario, as it's solely your own ability to play the job minus buffs. This was added recently because it's harder to determine whether a job like Black Mage and a job like Red Mage stack up in uncoordinated groups / PF play.

RDPS is a good measure of a job's overall strength, which is why it's the primary metric used for FFLogs.

ADPS is a good measure for a player capitalizing on party buff windows, because both R/NDPS generally favor selfish play for non-buffing jobs, which is less useful if your goal is optimization.

What? No. That is not how rDPS works, and aDPS and nDPS are basically the same thing. If a strong aDPS job is top in rDPS that means it’s busted. Right now, BLM is busted. It’s not a surprise really, because this is what happened back in SHB. It should not be number two in rDPS, and it should not be so far above RDM/SMN. This disparity is seen in the aDPS bracket, which is the true power potential of a job. People act like the buff jobs are massively shooting up the brackets with their buffs, and it’s just not the case.

[CKNovel]

What? No. That is not how rDPS works, and aDPS and nDPS are basically the same thing. If a strong aDPS job is top in rDPS that means it’s busted. Right now, BLM is busted. It’s not a surprise really, because this is what happened back in SHB. It should not be number two in rDPS, and it should not be so far above RDM/SMN. This disparity is seen in the aDPS bracket, which is the true power potential of a job. People act like the buff jobs are massively shooting up the brackets with their buffs, and it’s just not the case.

From FFLogs itself:

rDPS is great for showing how much damage you really contributed to the raid, For utility jobs like Dancer and Ninja, the metric depends on people making good use of your buffs, so some damage you contribute to the raid is out of your control.

nDPS is great for showing how well you executed your rotation. This allows, for example, Dancers and Ninjas, to see how well they did even if placed with underperforming partners or groups.

aDPS removes single target padding, but still rewards you for playing to AOE buffs. It also doesn't include your buff contributions, so this metric allows you to evaluate how well players are aligning their damage bursts with external AOE buffs.

You can check for yourself.

[Awkward]

From FFLogs itself:

rDPS is great for showing how much damage you really contributed to the raid, For utility jobs like Dancer and Ninja, the metric depends on people making good use of your buffs, so some damage you contribute to the raid is out of your control.

nDPS is great for showing how well you executed your rotation. This allows, for example, Dancers and Ninjas, to see how well they did even if placed with underperforming partners or groups.

aDPS removes single target padding, but still rewards you for playing to AOE buffs. It also doesn't include your buff contributions, so this metric allows you to evaluate how well players are aligning their damage bursts with external AOE buffs.

You can check for yourself.

Yes, and with raid buff jobs their damage goes up exponentially with a SAM and BLM which contribute by far the most damage to their raid buffs making BLM and SAM the definitive 'meta' jobs, this is mirrored in total party DPS which they have an enormous advantage in. This isn't rocket science, SAM right now gives 300+ more rdps to DNC vs everything not BLM, just because the SAM gets taxed for it it doesn't mean the DPS just disappears. BLM and SAM are overpowered right now and while their personal DPS _should_ be higher, it shouldn't be so much higher that they're competing and even beating jobs in raid DPS despite not even having one. In 6.05 they were balanced, right now they are not and did not need to receive any buffs at all. MCH as a job is mostly suffering because BRD and DNC have the strongest raid buffs in the game which they use to pad the strongest jobs in the game leaving MCH as a bad pick. The balance between MCH/DNC/BRD would not be so bad were it not for how overpowered SAM and BLM are, as MCH is fulfilling its role as doing way more personal damage than either.