Current top 100th percentile on P1S since 6.08 buffs

[Kolsykol]

People keep saying "but they don't bring a party buff" in relation to "pure" DPS, but literally every comparison being done is based on rDPS, not aDPS or nDPS. The raid buffs are already accounted for. rDPS is literally how much total party-wide damage the party would lose if you /playdead in the corner instead of contributing.

Realistically, any job that brings a raid buff should be higher on rDPS than the "pure" DPS, purely to justify their presence.

The efficency of the raid buffs decreases the worse your party members perform too or if they're not playing ball and lining things up properly.
It feels kinda silly when NIN is in the middle, while other DPS also have similar utility ( just less frequently ).

Imo tbh I think they should remove the raid-wide dps buffs on RPR and MNK, let it be NIN's niche and make it strong enough so if people are actually lining it up properly then they should be about equal.
It still makes NIN gimped because NIN would still be relient on other people for the numbers while RPR and MNK would still be more self-sustained regardless of others.
And DRG can be somewhere in the middle.

Like from a base logic pov, what exactly is the point of bringing a NIN?
When I did my weekly P2S with a 7/8 static and I joined they were all like '' yay Trick Attack we love you! '', all I could think was '' oh you sweet summer child ''.
We're not playing a game anymore where Trick Attack is actually all that relevant and desired by people who know better.

[Sunako]

It is only 3 days and your numbers looks so outdated lol... Gear still play huge factor.

[Aiscence]

1. One class is ALWAYS going to have to be at the bottom, and it just so happens that right now it's Machinist. This doesn't mean they're bad or need to be fixed. Let's say we buff them so that they are now stronger than Summoner. What happens next? Are you gonna complain about how SMN needs a buff? Like this is basic common sense, please use your heads. If you discriminate against a job just because they are the "lowest DPS", then you are a moron. "Lowest DPS" isn't the same as "low DPS".

Would be nice if mch wasn't the worst job atm, for most of shb and was considered trash for at least half of HW and SB.

Same with: "yes but mch is good in pdps": man if being 3rd from the bottom in adps and at the same level as rdm and smn in ndps -while having less utility and raid dps- is good for you...

"But they need to keep uptime": yes sure, hitboxes are sized to be half the arena outside of p4sp1 and even then, outside of one case, it's 100%. Bosses even jump back to be perfectly centered in a lot of cases to simplify positionning for melee and tanks ... Difficulty wise, the jobs we have now are a fragment of what they have been, especially BLM. Sam was never considered the hardest melee either but even when it was trash in SB, their dps was better than a mch in 4.4 so.

Machinist shouldn't need to do 95+ to be able to tackle a grey melee, because you can do more than grey just by having an okayish rotation, even if you need to do a few disconnect.

[Aikaal]

It is only 3 days and your numbers looks so outdated lol... Gear still play huge factor.

Looks like you've cherry picked the top logs of the past day on P1S. P1S is basically a dummy fight, it's better to average all fights.

If you pick all fights for the 100th percentile, you get something already more accurate,



If you pick all fights at 95th percentile for the past day;



This means that on average for the past day, at 95th percentile, MNK does 12.65% more DPS than MCH.

BLack Mage is 7% higher than both RDM/SMN. Funny enough, SMN is overall a tiny bit better than RDM but its theorized weaker. Maybe people are getting spell speed gear for P2S optimization.

Anyways, is this balanced?

The worst Melee (Samurai) on this data is 4.8% above the best ranged physical (Bard)

Also, everything is rDPS, of course.

[Sunako]

snip

Well tittle was p1s, that's why I picked it. Your tittle generally was cherry picking.


It is not balanced at all, especially MCH need huge buff right now.

[Aikaal]

Well tittle was p1s, that's why I picked it. Your tittle generally was cherry picking.


It is not balanced at all, especially MCH need huge buff right now.

Yeah, it was day 1 post with 6 hours into 6.08 so not much data there. I'm surprise this thread is even alive still. We'll get a much better ideas on next Wednesday when we can pick 1 week old data.

I mainly pointed it because, somehow, Dragoon was beating all melee jobs which feels pretty inaccurate right now.

[Tsumdere]

MCH desperately needs buffs.

I am in the 90-98th percentiles for my savage fights on MCH. My static RPR hovers around the 50-70th percentiles and he still absolutely destroys me in damage. The only time I've ever beaten him is when he died during P1S. Even then, I still only beat him by only 130 DPS. If I am less than optimal, he will widen the gap by 800-1000. Plus, this isn't even considering that my RDM/DRG teammates who also hover in the 90-98th percentile beat me by upwards of 700 damage constantly making my contributions feel pretty worthless.
And to be clear - I have a tome weapon and he doesn't, and I still struggle to beat him.

MCH (or any ranged class for that matter) shouldn't need to play perfect to even have a small chance of outdpsing an underperforming melee. There is next to no fights that utilize ranged players' mobility. When there is, it's not a boost to the ranged - just extra mechanics that the ranged have to do while the melee can sit there and do nothing. And the cherry on top is that MCH has no utility whatsoever. MCH contribute nothing but their pitiful damage.

[Awkward]

Looks like you've cherry picked the top logs of the past day on P1S. P1S is basically a dummy fight, it's better to average all fights.

If you pick all fights for the 100th percentile, you get something already more accurate,



If you pick all fights at 95th percentile for the past day;



This means that on average for the past day, at 95th percentile, MNK does 12.65% more DPS than MCH.

BLack Mage is 7% higher than both RDM/SMN. Funny enough, SMN is overall a tiny bit better than RDM but its theorized weaker. Maybe people are getting spell speed gear for P2S optimization.

Anyways, is this balanced?

The worst Melee (Samurai) on this data is 4.8% above the best ranged physical (Bard)

Also, everything is rDPS, of course.

The fact SAM, a job without a raid buff, which puts more into raid buffs than any other job, is this close and even ahead of other jobs with them in its role, shows how incredibly overpowered it is and how the balancing team clearly has no idea what raid dps even is. Truthfully, SAM has been 'meta' or top dog since its inception, just no one had any raid dps logs, but utility wasn't so homogenized and yet they keep overbuffing it every single patch it feels. And I'm not even going to talk about how broken BLM is, I did that enough. Truthfully, both of these 'selfish' jobs were fine in 6.05, they fulfilled their role of doing the highest personal dps, yet they didn't completely dwarf everything else so people were allowed a more varied comp. Now both of these jobs do so much damage it's almost a 2k dps loss to bring anything else in its role instead of them. People need to stop using only rdps as a metric, adps means something too. For example, PLD is a 'selfish' job DPS wise, its rdps is pretty equal to DRK, yet it's several hundred behind it in every other metric, that DPS is still counted somewhere and still means something. When every single dps job except SAM, BLM and MCH have raid buffs, they are not ever going to be wanting for raid buffs, and so they are always, always going to be doing by far the highest dps, making it so combat is 'buff the sam and blm'.

Both BLM and SAM are completely overpowered at this point and always have been and something needs to change about the design of these jobs because they both are completely centralizing the 'meta' of this game for years now. Now they legitimately need nerfs.

[Sunako]

Yeah, it was day 1 post with 6 hours into 6.08 so not much data there. I'm surprise this thread is even alive still. We'll get a much better ideas on next Wednesday when we can pick 1 week old data.

I mainly pointed it because, somehow, Dragoon was beating all melee jobs which feels pretty inaccurate right now.

I think we should wait around 2 months so most top players have bis gear. Jobs without support usually perform better during first weeks. If you wanna have full use of raidbuffs, whole party need perform well. Thats why Sage may perform pretty well compared to something like astro during first weeks, but once optimization start, I don't believe Sage can compete against astro anymore.

[CKNovel]

I agree with most of what you’re saying, but MCH is already the top DPS for pRanged. It’s substantially higher than Bard or Dancer, actually.

It's normal that MCH, BLM and SAM are above other jobs pDPS wise.

1 - It completely ignores the buff you bring.
For example, DNC dance and the buff it gives to teammates? Ignored.
Songs by BRD? Ignored.

Using money, if you have 100€ in your pocket but lended 20€ to each teammates, pDPS would still consider you have 100€.

2 - It also ignores the buffs.
For example, you're getting buffed by DNC, you deal 13k DPS. That's your personal DPS.
Example 2, you're not getting buffed by DNC, you deal 10k DPS. pDPS doesn't care, that's still your personal DPS.

Using money again, you have 250€ but borrowed 100€ from each teammates. pDPS ignores what you ower and still consider you have 250€.