Current top 100th percentile on P1S since 6.08 buffs

[Kaedys]

People keep saying "but they don't bring a party buff" in relation to "pure" DPS, but literally every comparison being done is based on rDPS, not aDPS or nDPS. The raid buffs are already accounted for. rDPS is literally how much total party-wide damage the party would lose if you /playdead in the corner instead of contributing.

Realistically, any job that brings a raid buff should be higher on rDPS than the "pure" DPS, purely to justify their presence. Their personal DPS output should obviously be lower, in proportion to the strength of their buffs, but their total party damage contribution needs to be at least equal, ideally a bit higher, than pure DPS. This is purely a math question. If two pure DPS (say, Monk and Black Mage) contribute more total party-wide damage than either one of those pure DPS plus any of the "buff" jobs, why bring buff jobs? Their personal DPS is taxed more than the contribution they bring to everyone else's damage. Bringing a "buff job" at that point becomes a direct nerf to the group.

Basically, you can't look at statistics that already take into account group buffs and still try to insist that pure DPS need to be on top because "buff tax".

The only other factors proposed have been complexity (ie. the difficulty in "doing it right" on a job, which does in fact vary), mobility, and melee vs. ranged. The latter two, as many have pointed out, are largely not a factor due to strategies. In addition, these statistics are actual fight statistics. Any tax for mobility or range should equal out with the losses from such within the fight. That's the point of that type of tax, to compensate for losses due to such restrictions. If melee are still ending up substantially ahead of ranged, and "immobile" substantially ahead of mobile (not that BLM is that immobile anymore), then the tax is too large, period.

"Complexity tax" I think is reasonably justified (though Yoshi-P has said they don't balance around how difficult a job is). But that's why I tend to look at the 75th percentile point instead of the 90th or 95th or absolute top parse (statistics by outlier, that). 75th percentile reflects those with a strong working knowledge of their job but that aren't playing perfectly. They make mistakes, they just don't make a lot of them. If balance at the 75th percentile point is reasonably good, I'm fine seeing more difficult jobs ahead at the very high percentile bands.

Problem is, that's not what's happening! Even looking at 75th percentile over the last day, the "pure DPS" jobs, excluding a couple, are massively ahead on rDPS]. Despite being the strongest buff job in the game, Dancer and Bard total party damage contribution is massively behind. When kill speed increases by replacing your buff jobs with pure DPS, balance is severely out of whack.

[Kolsykol]

People keep saying "but they don't bring a party buff" in relation to "pure" DPS, but literally every comparison being done is based on rDPS, not aDPS or nDPS. The raid buffs are already accounted for. rDPS is literally how much total party-wide damage the party would lose if you /playdead in the corner instead of contributing.

Realistically, any job that brings a raid buff should be higher on rDPS than the "pure" DPS, purely to justify their presence.

The efficency of the raid buffs decreases the worse your party members perform too or if they're not playing ball and lining things up properly.
It feels kinda silly when NIN is in the middle, while other DPS also have similar utility ( just less frequently ).

Imo tbh I think they should remove the raid-wide dps buffs on RPR and MNK, let it be NIN's niche and make it strong enough so if people are actually lining it up properly then they should be about equal.
It still makes NIN gimped because NIN would still be relient on other people for the numbers while RPR and MNK would still be more self-sustained regardless of others.
And DRG can be somewhere in the middle.

Like from a base logic pov, what exactly is the point of bringing a NIN?
When I did my weekly P2S with a 7/8 static and I joined they were all like '' yay Trick Attack we love you! '', all I could think was '' oh you sweet summer child ''.
We're not playing a game anymore where Trick Attack is actually all that relevant and desired by people who know better.