The dev team did a fantastic job on the MNK rework. I love it.

[Kahnom]

since the alpha of the v2 i say that positional for monk are stupid. do you see a martial artist wait to be behind or on the side of an enemy for attack? no... monk are martial artist they are not rogue, they are not assassin, they are not thief... even in game like d&d you don't have this sort of bullshit. and is normal, because martial artist search the fight with them body, they don't try to sneakly hit or such.

do it means i like the reword? i found it ankward... some skill that must'nt be here are still here anatman is the perfect exemple.
some skill must become passive, like riddle of the wind that was put here for counter balance. the increase of auto attack speed that we did loose with the change of greese lightning. because yes, before this change our auto attack was affected by it...
the ankward situation between our timer...

a lot of stuff need to be adressed, but the loose of some positional is not something that bother me.. personally im for getting ride of it, at this point it's more a shackle than anything else. because right now for the combo each skill fill a role, positional can be taken out and it will not change our combo.

and about dev team that don't design fight with positional in the head, did you notice like some boss (like p2n/s) don't have positional, because they know some fight you can't respect them...

Compare this to real life is dumb but I’ll play along.
Martial Artist don’t always aim for the face or belly but also the side of the body or the limbs if they see any openings.
They don’t stand still in one spot but have their footworks to move around to do what ?
Looking for weakness or nice spot to strike and this is more real than your reasons.

About p2s, they make it omni-positionals because the size is too big, that’s it.
And trust me on this, Even if they didn’t make it omni-positionals, the old mnk won’t complain or whining.

[DarkDredgen]

When they take away my only Blue option and turn it into Red, I am allowed to voice my opinion. If there is a reason they prefer Red, they should just stick with Red, of which there are more options and not take away Blue to make another Red.

You can voice your opinion without having to discredit others opinions on an entirely subjective matter.

Your parents should have taught you that when you were like 5 years old.

I like Monk with a few less positionals.

..I also like seeing a bunch of socially inept people on the Internet get mad because I don't like the same things they do lol

[VentVanitas]

Positionals are gone now, and if they don't come back, which I doubt they will, what changes would you seggest for monk that would satisfy you gameplay wise for the job? This is an honest question for once. I actually want to know, even from SSbunny.

I'll humour you.

Making Blitz have some kind of presence outside of our bursts, by either having some kind of method to achieve Blitz outside of PB, or by shortening its cooldown to 20-30 seconds. So in essence we go from 2 PB -> 1 PB - > 2 PB every burst to just 2 PB every burst. And in the scenario of 20s PB, it'd be 2 every burst and 1 in downtime. Adjust the potencties accordingly of course. It would bring Masterful Blitz around the same level of use as NIN's Ninjutsu (who also does 2 every burst and 1 in every downtime) which can be used outside of Kassatsu, and SAM's Iaijutsu which can be used outside of Meikyo Shisui.

Secondly, increase the cap of Chakra by 5 because there's no strategy or thought behind Chakra at all, you just pop it immediately once you have it and it makes Brotherhood feel awful. Increasing the cap would at least give us some leeway for weaving which is important on a job that is permanently stuck with ~1.9s GCD.

That would be enough for me. I don't care that much about losing positionals, I'm more upset that they were taken away with nothing else to replace what was lost.

[Navnav]

If that was true, you'd actually have bothered reading the dozens of posts across multiple threads by multiple people that have offered suggestions on what they'd want to see done for the job, including the threads where you were being a lot less subtle about what you are. Even when you claim you're offering an honest question you're still being a liar.

All the suggestions revolve around positionals, I am genuinely asking (i mean that), what you would like to see without positionals being back to more than what they are now. What would you like to see or do you think would make MNK more engaging for you mechanically, without the positionals?

[Navnav]

I'll humour you.

Making Blitz have some kind of presence outside of our bursts, by either having some kind of method to achieve Blitz outside of PB, or by shortening its cooldown to 20-30 seconds. So in essence we go from 2 PB -> 1 PB - > 2 PB every burst to just 2 PB every burst. And in the scenario of 20s PB, it'd be 2 every burst and 1 in downtime. Adjust the potencties accordingly of course. It would bring Masterful Blitz around the same level of use as NIN's Ninjutsu (who also does 2 every burst and 1 in every downtime) which can be used outside of Kassatsu, and SAM's Iaijutsu which can be used outside of Meikyo Shisui.

Secondly, increase the cap of Chakra by 5 because there's no strategy or thought behind Chakra at all, you just pop it immediately once you have it and it makes Brotherhood feel awful. Increasing the cap would at least give us some leeway for weaving which is important on a job that is permanently stuck with ~1.9s GCD.

That would be enough for me. I don't care that much about losing positionals, I'm more upset that they were taken away with nothing else to replace what was lost.

Those seem good though. And thanks for taking me seriously.

I think PB should open up new abilities that replace BS, TS and SP. Those abilities can be around 4-500 pot and can give enhancements on next hit like crit on next ability, shorten next GCD to 1.5 seconds and maybe opens 2 chakra. each one can do something a little different to make them worth hitting, but if you have to hit one for lunar, then you dont feel like you are missing out too much.

They can call them by the forms like:
Oppo Strike
Raptor Kick
Coeurl Punch (w/e)

PB can also refresh DF, but not demolish.

RoW can simply be changed into a 20% reduction in GCD speed, to give a faster gcd for 15 seconds. As I believe monk was most noted for having a faster GCD more than anything else. So to see it get a CD which makes you play extremely fast for a while is good, plus will do something for DPS.

They can either lower PB to 30 seconds or simply get a use for Anatman that isn't retarded. Something like Anatman resets a charge of PB on a 120-180s CD.

They can also bring back howling fist from lower levels as a standard AoE oGCD on a cooldown and Make SSS an OGCD that increases the damage of our next GCD by 30% on a 40s CD or there abouts.

Would love to see some of that, doubt I will though.

[ssunny2008]

All the suggestions revolve around positionals, I am genuinely asking (i mean that), what you would like to see without positionals being back to more than what they are now. What would you like to see or do you think would make MNK more engaging for you mechanically, without the positionals?

Someone else already asked you for such an answer, you ignored that. And now you're asking for the same? To copy'n'paste some stuff?!


Your ideas above are bad. Have you played too much SMN? What's the point that skills become just other skills with more potency or that we spam chakra way more?

You clearly don't want some real gameplay with variety across the board. All what you want is too feel good by pressing 1 button obviously.
"Reward me with big potency and shiny animations please!"
Ridiculous...

[wereotter]

"Reward me with big potency and shiny animations please!"

It's not directly part of this, but I have to say... this was the biggest disappointment for me about the new monk kit. I haven't finished them all, but all the jobs I do have up to level 90 excepting monk and summoner (the two that got overhauled) got brand new skills at level 90 that extend their combos or what they can do.

It's disappointing to me that the level cap skill for monk was tornado kick with extra damage. And the thing is, this wouldn't even be that hard to adjust. Keep Tornado Kick an OGCD, and introduce the lunar/solar nadi as a mechanic at level 90. Make Phantom Rush cost one of each to use. Might have had to adjust the cooldown length on perfect balance to make this work, but you could create a rotation wherein you get Phantom Rush in the opener, and every 2 minute window.

Also I 100% agree with an earlier comment. It's insane that for 5 years now monks are over capping chakras since we must use our gauge when it's at 100%. We don't need an extra five stacks, even just giving us the ability to hold 7 would solve the problem. And if they're concerned that would put too much fire power on the job, make it so we can only open the 6th and 7th chakras in combat.

[IruruCece]

All the suggestions revolve around positionals, I am genuinely asking (i mean that), what you would like to see without positionals being back to more than what they are now. What would you like to see or do you think would make MNK more engaging for you mechanically, without the positionals?

I don't expect you to take any of my suggestions seriously given your track record, so I'd first like positionals restored because you, specifically, don't like them and I'd like it if you were driven away from the job. They would be a significant increase in damage over missing them altogether, so lazy players who would just coast directly behind the boss and ignore them because they were statistically "irrelevant" would be further discouraged from the job or be forced to land them to be effective as players who do land them as often as possible. Screw the whiners. They had other jobs they could play instead.

Additionally, I'd like the blitz and chakra systems revamped so as to not recycle animations from OGCDs we used to have, and instead have OGCDs restored for players to have more to do with. Chakra also needs to be reworked beyond that, arguably a thing that has been needed since at least Heavensward, but in typical SE fashion, they've ignored players longstanding complaints about that system. Having it be so heavily reliant on other players and rngesus until level 88, even with Brotherhood at 70, is frankly stupid and unengaging to me. I have hated that for a long time.

Chakra, in my opinion, should have been a resource we generated rapidly AND spent rapidly without RNG being a factor whatsoever. Think like a super-meter in a fighting game. It would have things beyond Forbidden Chakra/Enlightenment to spend on. This, imo, is where the restored OGCDs would come into play. Ideally, I'd want chakra generation to also be improved in some by successful positionals (instead of one chakra, possibly two). Six Sided Star would be part of that system rather than what it is right now, removing the enforced global cool down on it. Rather than having Riddle of Wind be a running speed increase, maybe make SSS do what RoW does, and get rid of RoW as a separate button on top of that.

I legit don't know if Blitz would fit in with my "idea" for doing more with Chakra. Frankly, Blitz exists because SE had no clue what to do with Monk beyond giving it some flashy animations. I think it is roundly a failure that was more intended to act as a filler for multiple things being stripped out of the job at once, but again in typical SE fashion, they continued to neglect other problems in the job's kit while creating more on top of them. Assuming it stayed, Celestial Revolution wouldn't be the job's version of Ninja's bunny. It would be a single target blitz, and possibly gets an animation upgrade later down the line as the job levels towards 90-100. Rather than players spamming blitzes to build up to Phantom Rush as quickly as possible, I'd want it to be a system that players use as the circumstances demand.

The goal, in my opinion, is to not have any dead space in the job's rotation, no moments where a monk is waiting for CDs to "unload", be that Perfect Balance, Brotherhood, or RoF. It should ALWAYS be unloading, with the APM only increasing when it is officially go time and we're cramming everything we can under buffs. There would be less emphasis on "big" AoE-capable hits like the Blitz System basically now encourages, which to me is antithetical to job when I enjoyed it most (back in Heavensward). Individual button potencies would obviously need to be changed to reflect the number of things a monk would be firing off from minute to minute.

Thunderclap goes the En Avant route. I am not a fan of damageless gap closers/disengages that rely on targeting something else, and never will be.

[Andy_T93]

Im sure this topic has gone back and forth and I don't have the energy to read through it all but I will say I agree with TC I loved Monk in SHB and it took me a while to get used to the changes but now I have im having a blast with it, there are still a few rough edges, Anatman and SSS (also lack of OGCD, which makes me think they should just make SSS a normal OGCD)

Overall tho very happy with it

[Lihtleita]

since the alpha of the v2 i say that positional for monk are stupid. do you see a martial artist wait to be behind or on the side of an enemy for attack?

your mother never taught you to aim for the kidneys?