Tank healing is to high

[Absimiliard]

dnd cleric at least has better damage options and brings a lot to a group outside of healing, though.

If by that you mean can literally do everything better than anyone else.


Anywho, to return to the topic at hand:
I reiterate; where's the issue here? Healing is healing, and not having to heal the tanks just means more DPS uptime/more ability to heal the actual red DPS everyone else pretends to be.

[Kalaam]

Well then the issue is that your "dps uptime" is spamming a single button.
And as said before, you play a healer to manage the heals. If there is nothing to manage why not play something else ?
At that point it almost sound like healers should be Red Mages but with a buffed VerCure and a healing oGCD.

[Alzinor]

Easiest, most simple "nerf" is just to make it hit one time for 400 potency heal every swing instead of hitting every single target with a heal.

1200-1600 potency worth of "heals" every use, isn't overpowered.



People haven't done current level 8 player raids solo.



Hate to be that guy, but proof please of current 8 man raid content being solo'd at normal ilvl.

So, in this tier alone we've had:

* Both EX trials done without a healer

* Current final 8 man trial done solo

You can add " solo expert dungeon" to your list

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnI-5AWkSNw&t=1087s

[AziraSyuren]

You can add " solo expert dungeon" to your list

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnI-5AWkSNw&t=1087s

I like the fact that he actually had to kite the mobs to do it. Gives me solo deep dungeon vibes.

[Kabooa]

You can add " solo expert dungeon" to your list

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnI-5AWkSNw&t=1087s

Imagine being able to use your invuln and not die.

But at least you're not doing 100 more dps.

Edit: 200!

[HyperiusUltima]

You can add " solo expert dungeon" to your list

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnI-5AWkSNw&t=1087s

Imagine being able to cast Benediction w/ a 25s CD on yourself within 2 GCDs on a giant pack of mobs that would normally overwhelm any other tank without the aid of a healer. WAR's busted pls nerf WAR healing.

But in the actual raids, that's a different setting entirely. WAR still comes out on top when it comes to dealing with Tank busters outright because of the raw healing output they can produce every 25s.

[RyuDragnier]

I'm really expecting them to nerf Bloodwhetting down to 300 potency per hit, since that weakens the healing quite a bit and can cut down on this craziness while still keeping it pretty good in raid. Because if they go per use...well, that's a MASSIVE nerf to WAR's dungeon survivability.

[Shurrikhan]

I'm really expecting them to nerf Bloodwhetting down to 300 potency per hit, since that weakens the healing quite a bit and can cut down on this craziness while still keeping it pretty good in raid. Because if they go per use...well, that's a MASSIVE nerf to WAR's dungeon survivability.

I'd rather just revert the heal to a portion of actual damage, rather than a flat hit. It'd still be strong, but there'd be less of a gap between dungeons and raids.

That and halve the healing over time that was tacked onto Equilibrium....

[ForteNightshade]

Since you seem to be continuing with your strawman argument, let me explain the problem with it.

The source of healing doesn't matter if the healing simply isn't needed.

GCD options? oGCD options? Completely irrelevant here. If the party doesn't need healing because tanks (and in some cases, DPS) bring it themselves, then changing healer design doesn't matter

And, as a nitpick to your nitpick, I've never complained that mitigation is too high. Very high mitigation is fine as long as tanks will eventually die without help. Otherwise, we might as well be Guild Wars or Black Desert and just take healers out altogether. (Which... to be fair, the game certainly hasn't been going in the direction of making healers more relevant).

The problem is your proposed solution doesn't really achieve anything. Which is the crux of my point. Instead of having virtually no healing to do, you press Essential Dignity once in a blue moon. It's hardly what I would call relevancy. Hence my argument being it isn't simply tank sustain but multiple sources stacked on top of each other.

Both tanks and healer kits need to be nerfed and/or outgoing damage balanced around the sheer options available to us. Furthermore, you're ignoring the party does need healing. No DPS can survive any mass pull or normal mode without a healer for long.

Nevertheless, you address this problem by actually adding higher outgoing damage, forced tank swaps, Dooms, consistent triage. Not even Warrior can survive P3N without a healer because you're getting shredded for such a long time, especially if the other tank dies. Bloodwhetting is a little silly in dungeon, but the root problem is how little everything hurts. Look at how many times the Warrior solo-ing P1N comes close to dying. Up Eric's damage by 10% and suddenly no amount of sustain they presently have keeps them alive. Make it so a split stack AoE is impossible to survive solo. Make every boss deal double autos so both tanks are repeatedly taking damage. All of these accomplish the same thing without taking away an aspect of tank's gameplay.

This argument's a bit odd, as much as I agree that we shouldn't strip heals from tanks.

Yes, the present low healing requirements mean that we'd still encounter a problem of (roughly) the same type even if we reduced tank's self-sustain, since even Healers' free healing would still be great enough to make GCD healing feel excessive. However, the party would still, very literally, have less excessive healing (speaking in flat terms), if tank sustain was reduced, just as it would if Healers' free (oGCD) healing were reduced.

It would be, imo, a poor approach to handling the situation, but it wouldn't be irrelevant, nor would there be no benefit to healers' place in content resulting from the expense to tanks (even if it'd arguably not be a net positive for the game, and an altogether unnecessary cost regardless).

Perhaps it is an odd argument in a sense given the topic itself is about tank sustain not necessarily healing output in general. Nevertheless, I brought that up because I'd prefer focusing on the bigger picture as a whole instead of nerfing all the tank sustain, thereby reducing their gameplay to being damage sponges and little else—especially when it won't really impact healer gameplay in a meaningful way. If they nerf Bloodwhetting into the ground come 6.08. What really changes? You'll slap Tetra or ED on the WAR occasionally and need to heal them about as much as in Shadowbringers for dungeons, which wasn't much. In other words, we're back to both roles feeling hollow instead of one. Granted, tanks aren't exactly the most exhilarating role even with the sustain.

To put it simply, I want the devs to see nonsense like this P1N solo and realize how horrendously undertone fights are not decide "nerfing tank sustain will fix everything!"

With that said, I don't disagree with anything you've said either.

[Alzinor]

I'd rather just revert the heal to a portion of actual damage, rather than a flat hit. It'd still be strong, but there'd be less of a gap between dungeons and raids.

That and halve the healing over time that was tacked onto Equilibrium....

It was the case in ShB and it was powerful, especially in burst phase.
back in that time, i was already doing solo endgame dungeon like the anamnesis or heroes gauntlet solo.

If SE rly want to apply a solid nerf to war, the only option is the paladin way : 1 heal per use but maybe adjusted (600 potency healing as example)