Tank healing is to high

[Praesul]

Why in the world does anyone even care what can or can't be soloed when it requires days of practice and ends up taking so long to clear once you actually do nail it down you could have cleared it FIVE TO SIX TIMES in duty finder using any combination of valid comps.

Let's nerf RDM while we're at it because they can cheese bozja duels. They're the only job that can completely invalidate that content and it really makes me upsetties. No job should be able to beat a boss before it does any mechanics.

[ForteNightshade]

The problem is they cannot clear a raid by themselves, especially not WHILE it's current content. It's busted. I say this having been playing this game since ARR, with this being the ONLY time I've called a tank's healing busted. Because as much as people complained about DRK's Abyssal Drain back in Stormblood, it only worked for dungeon pulls, not the bosses themselves. This works for both.

Except the issue here isn't inherently Bloodwhetting but the fact P1N does so paltry levels of damage, Warrior can survive long enough to kill it. Why is the solution to nerf Bloodwhetting and not criticize the woefully poor tuning of this encounter? I'm not even denying that Bloodwhetting gets kinda silly but no fight should even allow it to reach this potential in the first place.

It should also be noted Heart of Corundum is, arguably, better than Bloodwhetting in a single target fight but it's the combination of Thrill, Equilibrium and Holmgang that allow Warrior to pull off this nonsense.

[Kabooa]

It should also be noted Heart of Corundum is, arguably, better than Bloodwhetting in a single target fight but it's the combination of Thrill, Equilibrium and Holmgang that allow Warrior to pull off this nonsense.

If you have 80,000 HP as a tank, and are taking an 80,000 buster.

Heart of Corundrum: .85 * .85 = 57,800 damage taken + 900 potency healing. At ~1500 HP per 100 (lowballing), restore 13,500 health.
Final HP: 35,700
+Brutal Shell: 38,700

Bloodwhetting: .9 * .9 = 64,800 - ~6000 (400 shield) = 58,800 damage taken + 1200 potency healing. At ~1500 HP per 100 (lowballing), restore 18,000 HP.
Final HP: 39,200

Please note that as damage intake lowers, the better healing potency is, likewise as damage intake increases, mitigation is better.

This also assumes both tanks are already full HP. If they instead are down one auto attack worth of damage, Bloodwhetting wins out and it isn't even close.

[AziraSyuren]

If you have 80,000 HP as a tank, and are taking an 80,000 buster.

Heart of Corundrum: .85 * .85 = 57,800 damage taken + 900 potency healing. At ~1500 HP per 100 (lowballing), restore 13,500 health.
Final HP: 35,700
+Brutal Shell: 38,700

Bloodwhetting: .9 * .9 = 64,800 - ~6000 (400 shield) = 58,800 damage taken + 1200 potency healing. At ~1500 HP per 100 (lowballing), restore 18,000 HP.
Final HP: 39,200

Please note that as damage intake lowers, the better healing potency is, likewise as damage intake increases, mitigation is better.

This also assumes both tanks are already full HP. If they instead are down one auto attack worth of damage, Bloodwhetting wins out and it isn't even close.

I just did the math myself.

If you throw in your 30% (which you're supposed to do) to both jobs, you'd have to crit at least one of the heals (which you can force with PR or IC, mind) to significantly beat out what GNB can do in the span of 4 GCDs, even if you're assuming both tanks are 10k down from an auto. And if you crit that HoC heal, you'd have to crit two BW heals to significantly beat it.

(mitigating another 10k auto after the TB with or without the 4s 10 and 15% buff active shifts it under 400ish HP in favor of GNB as well)

With all that in mind, BW is much more likely to overheal over the span of 4 GCDs depending on what your healer does, which biases it vastly in favor of GNB, which is I say that HoC is better. Overheal is much less likely on GNB unless the buster doesn't bring you under half health.

[Duskane]

You can have the gimmick of being "significantly better than other tanks at X" without newly being so much better at X as to invalidate your own reward systems and being "~10 times better than other tanks at X".

but thats always been the case for WAR
in HW and SB you hardly ever had to heal them if they were good

[Atreides]

Thats the reason I stopped arguing here, nerf x job it is stronger than I am and I don't like that is the norm and the reason why the devs don't read the english forums.
You won't be able to change someones opinion, everyone tries to bruteforce their own opinion anyway.

[Lyth]

Hm. I think there's more to it than that.

Self-sustain is not a mandatory requirement for tanking. The main reason for adding it to a tank is because can be a lot of fun. In my mind, a lot of the entertainment value comes around being rewarded for skillful application of your abilities. What I dislike about the current expansion's take on self-sustain is that a lot of it feels like a trait. Use actions that you would be using anyways (mitigation, your standard rotation) and your HP bar fills up. What I would rather see is a move towards it being more timing based. By this I mean abilities along the line of Deathstrike or Tracer's Recall, where your ability to restore health is contingent on the amount of damage that you've recently taken. Or alternatively, I'd like to see interesting resource juggling, like what DRK did in Stormblood in AoE pulls. Surviving ridiculous situations that other players don't expect you to is fine, but it should be skill driven, and not simply as a reward for picking a job and having a pulse.

I think many people are also missing the bigger issue at stake. There's a trend in job design in making all the roles less dependent on each other. Melee DPS doesn't trust you to position the boss intelligently. So guess what, when it matters, you don't get to. The bosses do it themselves. And I'm fine with that, because invisible Thancred is more reliable. Tanks don't trust their healers to keep them alive. So the tanks can now do it themselves. We've essentially uncoupled all the roles such that you can just jump in and enjoy your single player experience without worrying too much about others messing it up for you outside of team jumprope raidwipes. Overall, this paradigm works out to your disadvantage if you're a tank or a healer. Classically, players pick these roles to be the reliable friend that everyone pulls into their groups to clear content. Now you're just a queue requirement before the single player game starts.

[Absimiliard]

How 'bout that Tomahawk buff?

[Shurrikhan]

How 'bout that Tomahawk buff?

1 outlier down. Now where's the change to how Bloodwhetting scales in AoE?

[Undeadfire]

How 'bout that Tomahawk buff?

Warrior doesn't open with Tomohawk anymore, it's useless, Provoke > Heavy Swing is the opener for better raid buff syncing.