P1N Warrior solo kill

[Risvertasashi]

Like I said elsewhere. SE seems intent on making content below EX participation award level. They've doubled down on accessible to the absolute extreme end of the spectrum. Unfortunately, with the massive upswing in player numbers. I doubt they seen any incentive to actually change their design philosophy. At this point though, we're only bringing two tank and two healers because DF literally forces us to. We certainly don't need them.

What irks me is people keep screaming that Warrior needs to be nerfed when that won't achieve anything. Okay, 6.08, they nerf Bloodwhetting into the ground. What changes? P1N remains an embarrassingly easy fight that doesn't require healers to do anything but spam their nuke. Warrior's just can't solo it anymore.

Some points to note.

1. Although the video really underscores the extreme end of the spectrum, even EX content doesn't need healers. There were videos out of healerless clears before the current tier's high end gear was even releases. This is possible in no small part due to tanks just not needing healers. (The more impressive part of the no-healer clears is keeping DPS alive, but even that's not that high of a bar).

2. It's not just warrior. Single target, relative to other tanks, warriors aren't that powerful. Their healing is essentially on par with the others. It gets really absurd on trash packs, true, but the bigger problem is being able to do this on bosses and it's not just warrior that can do it.

3. It's not good gameplay design when, even in a dungeon, if the party wipes but the tank can continue to solo for 15 minutes to a kill. Everyone else is just sitting out and getting bored. Yes, this was possible to some extent before, but it's never been as common as now. Now add this to something like where the party, except for tanks, dies at say 30% in p2n/p3n/p4n. It's less extreme than a tank solo kill, but being able to duo through everything, only needing the other tank for stacks and just soloing every tankbuster, is still too much power in one role, and it's still making 6 people sit there and be bored for 10~15 minutes or even more.

Last I checked, no one was ticking a box that queues them up to be a spectator.

[ForteNightshade]

Snip

All of these issues can be readily solved with two simple additions:

1. Significantly higher outgoing damage so tanks simply can't solo content like this, specifically Normal modes. It's absurd that even in a damage I can take a split stack solo and not even lose half my HP with only Reprisal running. That should outright kill me if not come incredibly close with big CDs running. The fact it doesn't is a far bigger issue than tank self-healing. They shouldn't be in a position to heal that much to begin with.

2. Put enrages back in normal modes. There's absolutely no reason P1N should last an hour, or that any fight can be a 25+ minute struggle with 40 raises being thrown out. With a hard enrage, you completely nullify tanks even attempting something like this without neutering their gameplay. Once again, the solution shouldn't be to make tanks glorified DPS who occasionally press Vengeance if even that. It should be to fix the issue so both tanks and healers actually have a purpose beyond being weaker damage dealers.

[Deceptus]

All of these issues can be readily solved with two simple additions:

1. Significantly higher outgoing damage so tanks simply can't solo content like this, specifically Normal modes. It's absurd that even in a damage I can take a split stack solo and not even lose half my HP with only Reprisal running. That should outright kill me if not come incredibly close with big CDs running. The fact it doesn't is a far bigger issue than tank self-healing. They shouldn't be in a position to heal that much to begin with.

2. Put enrages back in normal modes. There's absolutely no reason P1N should last an hour, or that any fight can be a 25+ minute struggle with 40 raises being thrown out. With a hard enrage, you completely nullify tanks even attempting something like this without neutering their gameplay. Once again, the solution shouldn't be to make tanks glorified DPS who occasionally press Vengeance if even that. It should be to fix the issue so both tanks and healers actually have a purpose beyond being weaker damage dealers.

1) Add more tank swap mechanics to normal raids. The reason this (solo killing) can be done, outside of adding enrages, is because tank damage is too low.

Putting a debuff on a tank that can only be negated via a tank swap stops that sh!t ricky tick. Hell, in most content that 2nd tank is a Blue DPS, only there to keep enmity in case the MT dies.

2) Add Doom to more normal raids that needs to be cleansed. This also requires healers to be present (or bards )

Basically there are multiple ways to mitigate this kind of gameplay and the FFXIV Devs have blatantly refused to do any of them and have negated the entire healing role because of it.

[Sqwall]

I have been saying this for months. I saw it all the way back in Shadowbringers launch and it is even MORE prevalent today.

DPS and enrage being the main focus to encounter design needs to be adjusted.

1. Tanks need to TAKE MORE damage, auto attacks need to FREAKING hurt!
2. Healers need to sweat trying to keep the party alive and barely any time to DPS. Maybe throw DOT out once it a while.
3. DPS need to encounter MORE DPS specific mechanics while trying to keep uptime.

Enrage should have a soft enrage and full enrage.

Once the savage boss goes through it's full repertoire of attacks....it starts over....but with a soft enrage. 20% more damage output for 3 min or so until FULL enrage.

Tanks will most likely re meld into full tenacity
Healers will meld into piety
DPS...well nothing changes...

DPS race is no longer the focus of the game.

I don't know how many times I take a shared tank buster from p2s....and literally solo it like it's nothing. Taking tethers to the face...and just laugh at them.

I should feel scared to take a buster to the face. Instead I....yawn...

[Risvertasashi]

-snip-

Why not both?

Reduce tank healing at least to pre-EW levels. And increase damage so healers have more to do. It's not like fights having very low healing requirements is a new complaint...

1) Add more tank swap mechanics to normal raids. The reason this (solo killing) can be done, outside of adding enrages, is because tank damage is too low.

Putting a debuff on a tank that can only be negated via a tank swap stops that sh!t ricky tick. Hell, in most content that 2nd tank is a Blue DPS, only there to keep enmity in case the MT dies.

The problem is that this assumes a tank soloing current full-party content is the problem. It's not; it's a symptom. If you make it so "Well now a tank literally can't solo it; they'd have to duo it instead", you haven't fixed the issues at the root.

Enrage would make DPS necessary, but not healers. I've already been forecasting that solo heals or no heals will be very popular this expac if design continues as is, outside of cases where mechanics may force 2 healers (eg healer-split-stacks in p2s, for instance)

[Liam_Harper]

Why not both?

Reduce tank healing at least to pre-EW levels. And increase damage so healers have more to do. It's not like fights having very low healing requirements is a new complaint...

Because then tank becomes boring. They'd be reduced to a 1-2-3 watered down melee again that presses a CD 3 times per fight. Tanks having a significant contribution to their own survivability is a good thing, it requires you to use defensives liberally in raids and press your buttons. It feels good to be really tanky because you're playing really well.

If bosses hit much harder, there's no problem with tanks having heals or mitigation because the boss still hits too hard to solo anything.

It irks me that healers can cry out for more engagement than one button dps, while at the same time demanding the devs rip abilities away from other classes and roles. No wonder they don't listen to us.

[Risvertasashi]

Because then tank becomes boring. They'd be reduced to a 1-2-3 watered down melee again that presses a CD 3 times per fight. Tanks having a significant contribution to their own survivability is a good thing, it requires you to use defensives liberally in raids and press your buttons. It feels good to be really tanky because you're playing really well.

If bosses hit much harder, there's no problem with tanks having heals or mitigation because the boss still hits too hard to solo anything.

It irks me that healers can cry out for more engagement than one button dps, while at the same time demanding the devs rip abilities away from other classes and roles. No wonder they don't listen to us.

So, hey, why not take a tip from what healers are doing and ask for a more complex rotation?

Except tanks haven't been 1-2-3 for a while now (except DRK I guess LOL). But if a job has to be overpowered to be fun, then, you like playing an overpowered job, and it has nothing to do with complexity. Smart use of CDs has been important well before the era of "press your absurd healing-win button every 25 seconds".

[Lasciare]

All of these issues can be readily solved with two simple additions:

1. Significantly higher outgoing damage so tanks simply can't solo content like this, specifically Normal modes. It's absurd that even in a damage I can take a split stack solo and not even lose half my HP with only Reprisal running. That should outright kill me if not come incredibly close with big CDs running. The fact it doesn't is a far bigger issue than tank self-healing. They shouldn't be in a position to heal that much to begin with.

The damage output last expansion was slow and lacking. This expansion is not only worse, but they have given several jobs some hefty healing and mit skills. Not to mention some of the bonkers skills healers got. The content just isn't demanding enough from healers. Tank self healing honestly wouldn't seem that strong if content actually felt like it hurt.

2. Put enrages back in normal modes. There's absolutely no reason P1N should last an hour, or that any fight can be a 25+ minute struggle with 40 raises being thrown out. With a hard enrage, you completely nullify tanks even attempting something like this without neutering their gameplay. Once again, the solution shouldn't be to make tanks glorified DPS who occasionally press Vengeance if even that. It should be to fix the issue so both tanks and healers actually have a purpose beyond being weaker damage dealers.

Agree. Each job is only as important as an instance makes them. If there is no threat of enrage, only an instance timer, the DPS loses its importance. If there is no spike damage, there's no need for a tank. If there's not enough damage going out over all, the healer isn't needed. Yea, a lot of the jobs need tuning right now, but this specific issue has less to do with job design, I feel, and more to do with battle design not properly tuning for where the jobs are now.