A lot of the main issues with SCH are not being addressed with Endwalker

[Solaires]

Sorry man, but I have to be honest with you. While I don't think the developers have actual ill-will against those who want to see healer changes--I do think they actively ignore us and have made this pure healing boring crap their sacred cow. Meaning, they'll never change it no matter how many people complain, stop playing healers, and/or post on the forums. We're stuck with this garbage 1-button spam for a long, long time.

This actually is exactly why the healers are like this now. Back in Heavensward we had a bunch of healers whining that they only wanted to heal and do absolutely no DPS what so ever. Yoshi P agreed that this was okay and thus things got adjusted to push that tanks and healers are much more minimal on priority to DPS. This also killed a lot of DPS for most of those classes. DoTs being changed after Heavensward also might be arguably one of the big losses classes as before those DoTs were a major part of your DPS and melting mobs. After HW they wanted to remove most of the DoTs. In terms a lot of other changes happened like DRG not having high physical defense and HP with tank buffs and low magical defense as well as many classes losing the ability to have skills from other roles not of their of class.

Though in terms the healer only priority is stemmed from a complaint of lazy healers back in HW where they only wanted to heal and do no DPS and Yoshi P agreed upon this. Probably pushing for an anti-toxic community and trying to address even unreasonable complaints. DPS checkers also were something they didn't want because of targeting players as an example and we also lost the ability to skip cut scenes in Main Scenario Roulette due to complaints which now just makes people not want to run Main Scenario Roulettes either. It also removed the ability to chat in Feast due to not wanting toxic gameplay. Unfortunately Feast is much better prioritized with chatting and coordination so it was another flop in the choices they made. Of course Feast is a flop altogether as it's unrewarding and 100 people getting the prizes per data center was a poor choice. Ques never happen asides from cheaters manipulating wins for the prizes. These terrible decisions were also like this for Triple Triad.

Sorry I trailed off but just notably you are correct and that's why it's like this.

[OtakuSempai]

Well, I don't see a difference really. When you're dumping stacks, you're "wasting" the stack either way. Overheal or ED. In terms of healing, I mean. But the Ruin IV way of doing it wouldn't lead to your method of dumping stacks strictly competing with your method of using them for heals.

Like when you don't need to heal, you'd just overheal a Lustrate and bank the Further Ruin stack for movement/weaving/burst window. With my proposed system.

I really do not understand this community's insistence that overhealing by design is good. Its suggestions like these is why tanks are 1-2-3 melee dps and healers are 1 button snooze fests.

Dumping lustrate to get rid of stacks will encourage bad habits and further the divide between good and bad players. You want to design the job to be intuitive so that's its obvious what the optimal play is, that's not how you do it.

[OtakuSempai]

That's merely a matter of balancing, though. If their rDPS is balanced such that in a fight that needs very little healing, a SCH would stand at least even with an optimized AST, then it's that SCH's rDPS is "punished" by using healing oGCDs for heals, but rather that SCHs have a unique flexibility by which to dump otherwise excessive healing.

Now, if you make it outright obligatory by essentially siphoning offensive potency-per-minute to new-AF (which now requires a target and cannot be used during downtime), then yeah, of course it's going to take from the budget and of course you're going to be balanced around that potency.


And I have to disagree. I think that choice is a good thing. I'd sooner keep that choice on Aetherflow Stacks/Charges spending than the dull-as-dirt way that Fairy Gauge is generated (and, to be fair, has merely replaced what micromanagement we previously had on our pets and its higher ceiling for nuance).

Players just don't want to spend the iota of brain resources it requires to make decisions on the fly in their healer gameplay. There's just no point arguing with these players and SE will acquiesce to them eventually.

"I don't want any decision making in my healer gameplay and want to just play the same rote way every time so I can zone out and collect my tomestones" - most of this thread

[GrimGale]

Players just don't want to spend the iota of brain resources it requires to make decisions on the fly in their healer gameplay. There's just no point arguing with these players and SE will acquiesce to them eventually.

"I don't want any decision making in my healer gameplay and want to just play the same rote way every time so I can zone out and collect my tomestones" - most of this thread

If decision making is choosing between using a heal and dealing damage then no, that is barely decision making, especially when you can keep people alive just by using Fairy abilities, that require no AF and do not waste a GCD.

The problem with ED is that it becomes a significant DPS gain and completely turns Dissipation into a dps boost.

If you make players chose between using resources for healing or dps, then you give them free abilities that lets them heal at no cost, you'll see them blow all of those resources foe dp, as healing has very little value in this game.

[Shurrikhan]

If decision making is choosing between using a heal and dealing damage then no, that is barely decision making, especially when you can keep people alive just by using Fairy abilities, that require no AF and do not waste a GCD.

By that token, though, anything that isn't yet necessary in a given piece of content cannot constitute decision-making.

If even in Savage there's no point where Aetherflow heals wouldn't be a "waste", causing Energy Drain to be "barely decision making", then we've got a much larger problem than just Energy Drain being a contextually unnecessary convolution. (Though, all rotation beyond Glare/Holy spam also fits that definition.)

If you make players chose between using resources for healing or dps, then you give them free abilities that lets them heal at no cost, you'll see them blow all of those resources foe dp, as healing has very little value in this game.

See above.

The problem with ED is that it becomes a significant DPS gain and completely turns Dissipation into a dps boost.

Isn't that equally an issue of Dissipation's design, then?

[Deceptus]

The problem with ED is that it becomes a significant DPS gain and completely turns Dissipation into a dps boost.
.

300 potency that you gain from dissipation if you burned every single charge on ED is not a "significant DPS gain". It's essentially an extra broil every 3 min

With as nerfed as it is now and with the MP removal of it, Energy Drain pretty much has very little use anymore.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I wouldn't be surprised if this is part of their 'plan' to slowly remove it from SCH's arsenal. But once we reach to that point, I really 'hope' they have something interesting to replace that.

[Tobalito]

If you are referring to Energy drain then they already tried to remove it at 5.0 and the community begged for it back. So they nerfed our damage and gave it back

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

If you are referring to Energy drain then they already tried to remove it at 5.0 and the community begged for it back. So they nerfed our damage and gave it back

I am. I am aware of that action's history, although what I was implying was if this is their plan to continuously nerfing the button so much that it becomes redundant so that they can finally remove it entirely (like WHM's Fluid Aura), except for 2nd time.

[Liam_Harper]

I like the idea of making Ruin II a dps neutral Aetherflow spender instead of ED. Then you can use stacks for mobility. They could even make it aoe like Toxicon if they wanted.