I thought people might be exaggerating about SMN

[Tanis_Ebonhart]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r3T1X0OXIU

He performed really well too for just using one button. His combo only dropped because he had to rez both healers in the party.



People are playing it because it's new. Same with why there's so many reapers or sages. Most will drop it once they are bored and move onto the next new thing.

So far every Summoner I've met has been loving it and are making Summoner their main MDPS job for Endwalker.

Most players are casual by nature. They don't want an overtly complicated rotation or a ton of stuff to constantly be pressing. That's why Summoner before the update was nowhere near as played as the much easier classes to play.

I mean, look at Warrior. It's extremely popular out of the Tanks despite being the most braindead. Turns out most Tanks like to have an easy/chill rotation.

This reasoning is also why Monk lost positional requirements and now it's being played much more frequently than before.

This reasoning is extremely flawed, it’s just a new class so people will try it out of course like every new class, but it says nothing about how the pre ew smn players like the changes or how popular the new class will be when the novelty wears off.

There are no numbers available about how many pre ew smn players still play smn only se knows that numbers and ffxiv community seems to be extremely forgiving and has a hard core of players who defend every decision by the ffxiv team blindly so most critical threads get filled by people defending the change by the old smn was terrible or extreme flawed statements as it’s now popular. Which gives the impression that the op apparently is alone in his dissatisfaction because everyone loves the new smn.

And for the sake of argument even if the old smn was not the most popular class does this warrant a removal which will upset a small part of the player base so u will make the class more popular by a larger part of the players ? With that logic in the end we will all get the same generic jobs.

Your reasoning is even more flawed. People are loving New Summoner. Only a minority seems to miss the mangled DoT based version that was far less flashy and much less fun to play as on top of being overtly complicated compared to far better forming jobs.

There's a reason more players tend to play Warrior, for example, over Dark Knight or Gunbreaker. The fact that you cannot understand this is proof enough that it was the right decision to go forward with the Summoner changes.

And there is more reapers and sages than ever. Why is that?

I need not answer that. You aren't debating in good faith and you know it.

Next time don't compare apples and oranges.

[kejakalope]

There aren't other options why do people keep saying this, migrating to another full caster with complexity means exactly one potential option: BLM. Even if there were other options, why is it acceptable to rework a job into something so utterly unrecognizable? You like it so therefore it's fine? Excellent logic

Because the previous version was unrecognizable to people who came in wanting a Final Fantasy Summoner.

[tearagion]

Reworks do not happen suddenly out of the blue without something majorly going wrong. In Summoner, you had systems stacked to the sky on top of each other, people complaining extremely vocally about the fact that it physically hurt to play the job on controllers/more normal keybinds, the fact that watching dot timers is the last thing a lot of people think about when they hear "Final Fantasy Summoner," timers that were unfriendly and gave micromanaging a whole new definition, severe penalties upon death that I can't think any other class in this game suffered from to the extent SMN did, and pets who were by and large unimpactful and glitchy.

They tried for 8 years to make old SMN work. In the end, they realized that it was a road leading to nowhere and decided to start clean. The result was a job that stole the show when it was revealed and then stole the crown from Red Mage outside of JP when it comes to casters. Of course me and pretty much everyone would like some new abilities based off the summons if not more summons themselves but I've been around long enough to realize that things like that will take time to design and get right, and the absolute last thing we need to do is go back to some of the "ideas" that only served to confuse players and the devs themselves.

In any case, jobs change in mmos. This has been the case pretty much everywhere. Even WoW's Warlock has had several reworks and redesigns over the years. I remember they used to turn into demons instead of summoning them at one point. I imagine that the people who were into that had to wait a while before Demon Hunter eventually released and they got that mechanic back in, as another class. The time has come for some to go out and experiment for a while during the time it takes for the devs to develop 7.0's caster. This is just what happens every so often in games like these, only its Summoner's turn.

didn't read, stop posting

Because the previous version was unrecognizable to people who came in wanting a Final Fantasy Summoner.

Summoning Bahamut and Phoenix is unrecognizable as a summoner? When you say Final Fantasy summoner did you mean summon the best one > ether > repeat? Or maybe you meant one of the games where there wasn't a dedicated summoner and summoning was just an extra for a specific character, or maybe when summoning was just a materia in one of the the most popular SP FFs? Please stop this asinine argument.

[Ralts]

Because the previous version was unrecognizable to people who came in wanting a Final Fantasy Summoner.

You're right about this. I started to play this game after I saw this 2.0 ad where they showed the summoner class by the end of the video. Then I played summoner and it didn't feel like a summoner at all, so I stopped playing and just came back months later to just main white mage. They added bahamut, then pheonix, but the whole dot thing didn't feel like it belongs to a FF summoner's kit. I kept changing my main, but coming back to summoner every start of the expansion hoping it would feel like it's supposed to feel. And now, even though the class feels somewhat incomplete, it feels like how it's intended and it's fun. I haven't played any other classes since 6.0

[zcrash970]

So far every Summoner I've met has been loving it and are making Summoner their main MDPS job for Endwalker.

Most players are casual by nature. They don't want an overtly complicated rotation or a ton of stuff to constantly be pressing. That's why Summoner before the update was nowhere near as played as the much easier classes to play.

I mean, look at Warrior. It's extremely popular out of the Tanks despite being the most braindead. Turns out most Tanks like to have an easy/chill rotation.

This reasoning is also why Monk lost positional requirements and now it's being played much more frequently than before.



Your reasoning is even more flawed. People are loving New Summoner. Only a minority seems to miss the mangled DoT based version that was far less flashy and much less fun to play as on top of being overtly complicated compared to far better forming jobs.

There's a reason more players tend to play Warrior, for example, over Dark Knight or Gunbreaker. The fact that you cannot understand this is proof enough that it was the right decision to go forward with the Summoner changes.



I need not answer that. You aren't debating in good faith and you know it.

Next time don't compare apples and oranges.

Wow that's a bad take...

I see more people upset about new smn than loving. That must be true then

Also people love war because of how absurd it is. Can negate having the need for a healer in a lot of content? Most people will overdose on that like it's crack.

[IdowhatIwant]

didn't read, stop posting

That person you are telling to stop posting actually made a solid point.

[Catwho]

I played SMN in Savage at 80. Playing it now in Savage at 90.

There's so much more mobility. Previously, everything was built around "so when do I need to have Ruin IV up so I can run to my new spot" and now it's built around "so when can I stand still so I can hard cast Garuda or Ifrit."

I *like* the magically transforming buttons. It allowed me to put most of my abilities into the first row. Instead of double weaves during the opener, I can single weave comfortably and not worry about clipping as much.

That said, the job is kind of meh until 84 when the full rotation is unlocked.

And we need a damage buff.

[Waliel]

I really disliked the previous iteration, but now it's my favourite job in the game. I just wish Carby did some ranged attacks instead of just being an emotinal support pet, though.

[tearagion]

That person you are telling to stop posting actually made a solid point.

I read it to humour you and it's the same thing that person posts every time without fail: hyperbole about how difficult it was to play, doesn't fit what I think FF summoner should be, simple jobs are the only ones worth making because they're popular, get over it loser old-smn-players, affliction warlock, wait for 7.0 or play a different job. Each of these points has been contended many times with absolutely no mutual dialogue engagement from them. They're here just to act smug or something and in the process waste everyone's time.

[IdowhatIwant]

I read it to humour you and it's the same thing that person posts every time without fail: hyperbole about how difficult it was to play, doesn't fit what I think FF summoner should be, simple jobs are the only ones worth making because they're popular, get over it loser old-smn-players, affliction warlock, wait for 7.0 or play a different job. Each of these points has been contended many times with absolutely no mutual dialogue engagement from them. They're here just to act smug or something and in the process waste everyone's time.

I don't think it is being smug to tell you that your option is to play something different if you do not like it. That is just kinda the reality of the situation... If you are expecting some one to have a direct line to Yoshi P to call and address your complain than that is just unrealistic.

It does suck if you liked old summoner and do not like the new iteration. Those are the only people that I think can legitimately complain. If you find the class is to easy than play something you enjoy more it is not exactly rocket science.

The class was reworked because it was not very user friendly, it suffered from some jank at the start of shadowbringers which made me drop the class. The jank was eventually addresed. But the class really was a bunch of piled on systems that really didn't mesh that well.

I enjoy new summoner, its easy game play and very chill. I think it could use some work but it is what it is right now and I like the direction they are going with it.