The current State of Casters 6.05 edition - balancing discussion

[Azuri]

Ok, here's the more constructive version:
- RDM can rez more
- RDM doesn't lose DPS just from keeping open the possibility of a rez
- RDM has vercure, actual on-demand healing that can be used to recover at critical junctures
- RDM has excellent mobility (similar to SMN)
- RDM has a good raid buff (similar to SMN)

Thus:
SMN should not pay a higher tax than RDM for its utility.

And here is a more constructive counter.
- Ability to rez has no use at the highest end of gameplay and does not justify a highest potential damage tax.
- SMN doesn't lose DPS from Phoenix Regens. Vercure is significantly more situational and is a heavy DPS loss. Just the idea of you claiming that this 15k single target GCD heal has any potential to recover is asinine.
- Damage buffs are not utility. They are rolled into rDPS and don't matter for the conversation.
- Mobility tax is a real thing that physical ranged suffer from. Giving SMN an exemption from this tax is entirely unfair. If SMN has to go up in damage so do MCH, DNC and BRD.

[Risvertasashi]

- Mobility tax is a real thing that physical ranged suffer from. Giving SMN an exemption from this tax is entirely unfair. If SMN has to go up in damage so do MCH, DNC and BRD.

Or RDM can come down in damage.

I mean, not really since SE doesn't do nerfs if they can avoid it. But, you know, if there's a mobility tax then RDM definitely isn't paying enough for "every other GCD, and every GCD during several combos, is instant".

[Azuri]

Or RDM can come down in damage.

I mean, not really since SE doesn't do nerfs if they can avoid it. But, you know, if there's a mobility tax then RDM definitely isn't paying enough for "every other GCD, and every GCD during several combos, is instant".

Didn't know RDM is on the same level as BLM or top dog melees. Oh. It isn't.

[Aikaal]

And here is a more constructive counter.
- Ability to rez has no use at the highest end of gameplay and does not justify a highest potential damage tax.
- SMN doesn't lose DPS from Phoenix Regens. Vercure is significantly more situational and is a heavy DPS loss. Just the idea of you claiming that this 15k single target GCD heal has any potential to recover is asinine.
- Damage buffs are not utility. They are rolled into rDPS and don't matter for the conversation.
- Mobility tax is a real thing that physical ranged suffer from. Giving SMN an exemption from this tax is entirely unfair. If SMN has to go up in damage so do MCH, DNC and BRD.

Here's a counter argument of your counter.

- Phoenix regen and single target heal is restricted on a time frame when Phoenix is up.
- Mobility is a feature from physical ranged DPS, not caster.
- Ability to res allows you to progress faster for your clears. Otherwise nobody would play Red Mage and Summoner, they'd all play Black Mage.
- Red Mage ability to heal in panic moment helps progress and see further mechanics, something that Summoner cannot provide.

[Rika007]

- Mobility tax is a real thing that physical ranged suffer from. Giving SMN an exemption from this tax is entirely unfair. If SMN has to go up in damage so do MCH, DNC and BRD.

All 4 of those jobs you listed should 100% be buffed (Machinist the most, Bard the least, dancer right up to where Bard is, and summoner somewhere above them). The mobility tax is a meme at this point. None of the upper tier content enforces use of that mobility, melees have been given so much uptime QoL that there is no excuse for them to ever not keep up a flawless rotation, and the way mechanics now work it basically requires ranged to stay up close with the team or risk missing out on crucial heals (which enforces them to deal with the same mechanics melees do anyway).

[Aikaal]

All 4 of those jobs you listed should 100% be buffed (Machinist the most, Bard the least, dancer right up to where Bard is, and summoner somewhere above them). The mobility tax is a meme at this point. None of the upper tier content enforces use of that mobility, melees have been given so much uptime QoL that there is no excuse for them to ever not keep up a flawless rotation, and the way mechanics now work it basically requires ranged to stay up close with the team or risk missing out on crucial heals (which enforces them to deal with the same mechanics melees do anyway).

Bard's currently the better ranged phys but yeah. The main issue I have with comparing Summoner to a ranged Physical is that they are essentially two different jobs. Ranged Physical are balanced around high mobility being a feature on them. That's not what should define Summoner. If they decide to put the tag on Summoner so you can get 5% stats buff with Summoner and Red Mage then sure but that wouldn't make sense.

The true terrifying thing about Summoner is what has been killing White Mage. It has a very easy and pleasing gameplay. Most casual will enjoy playing them regardless it is good or not and it does feel White Mages are not getting much love because it is played a lot.

While Summoner is truly simple, they get gutted with a highly restrictive rotation and gameplay. It is really just Baha > Elemental Summon > Elemental Summon > Elemental Summon > Phoenix > Elemental Summon > Elemental Summon > Elemental Summon

Restricting Garuda/Ifrit/Titan to Phoenix and Bahamut feels like a flawed design. I would dig having an oGCD ability with 2 charges that unlock my gems so in situations such at P2S where I must burn my Bahamut I could instead use a filler Elemental Summon and have Bahamut still in the burst window.

It feels so wrong they've removed so many restrictions on jobs like Monk GL, Dragoon's BotD or BLM Enochian but they gives such an awkward limitation to Summoner.