Thread: The current State of Casters 6.05 edition - balancing discussion

That's why aetherflow was great mechanic. You could play around downtime without punishment. Even if you stack spell speed, you have to spam some extra ruin3 every minute if you wanna use Bahamut/phoenix for the buffs.

agree 100% with this thread, give Smn a boots (in reality, should be on paar with Mnk), bu being under Rdm, wtf??
and common, .. fix the Smn dps buff, .. do tiresome, when it can't be used wgen up (same actually for the Smn self shield,.. but it atlest has 2x charges)
.. cut the CD of the Smn buff in half, or just straight up buff its Garuda & Ifrit skills, fast fix (though, if the Smn buff remains unchanged, it will stlll feel clunky)

It'll be a sad day if the casters ever lose the ability to raise. The fact that you can even have arguments about their merits in the first place means that their utility has real importance. The other roles are practically identical except for numbers, and your skill expression amounts to choosing what skin you want your damage dealer to have. Boring.

This game is way bigger than just raiding too. I've seen it smooth out so many encounters in trials or dungeons that would've ended on a sour note or a wipe instead. I'll take those holistic benefits over 1% better balance any day. This series has a rich history of jobs to draw on, it doesn't deserve to be approached as a spreadsheet simulator like WoW.

Originally Posted by Shiroe

(in reality, should be on paar with Mnk), bu being under Rdm, wtf??

SMN most definitely should not be on par with MNK. It is right now every bit as brain dead to play as BLM was in ARR. Something that easy and accessible should never outperform a job that requires even a modicum of effort to play effectively.

Originally Posted by Absimiliard

SMN most definitely should not be on par with MNK. It is right now every bit as brain dead to play as BLM was in ARR. Something that easy and accessible should never outperform a job that requires even a modicum of effort to play effectively.

By your way of balance, I guess sam, rpr, and blm shouldn't out dps MNK either. Face it most the jobs in ff14 are not complex and most of them can be played pretty easily. I agree mnk has become pretty complex but it is like the only one now that is complex. I say it once and I'll say it again having a complex rotation or "hard" job shouldn't be the determining factor for balancing. If that was true SB smn and ShB smn should have stayed as the number one dps but instead, it got nerfs whenever they overturned it.

I definitely wouldn't mind a long ass CD raise role action from casters.

@Azuri, sadly for you, Summoner is straight up undertuned and require a buff to make them do a little more damage than Summoners. World First group who cleared Pandaemonium reached the conclusion when team building that Red Mage was an auto-pick over Summoner just from damage output. They never cared to check defensive support or mobility. They simply stop at the damage. Would they have got a situaiton were damage was really close between the two, they'd have checked the defensive capacity which, let's face it, Red Mage provides better defensive capacity. Better raise and better on demand utility in Magick Barrier. Yeah, it might just reduce Magic Damage but you can press the button whenever you want. For Phoenix's Medica II, you don't get the option to use it on Summoner. It's auto-default.

Add this to the fact Summoner anti-synergize with his party in situations such as P2S there is no other thing to say than Summoner is extremely undertuned in all aspects of the game, except mobility which isn't even checked by world first groups like TPS.

If I can add a final argument, it's that if you don,t believe me despite me having a background in designing a black mage opener back in Heavensward, then I can provide testimonies from high profile raiders which explains why Summoner is undertuned and Red Mage is too strong compared to Summoner..



To sum up, they've found out that without a doubt DRk, SCH, MNK, RPR, RDM and BRD were top of their job. Ironically enough, they favored a third ranged DPS slot for world prog even if MNK felt better than BLM. Still, they've obtained world first with BLM but they felt MNK was stronger. "smn damage was very low, on dummy dps, smn was abysmally low pre-patch". Red Mage was auto-included because it was doing near melee-rDPS and provided raise and magick barrier (funny I was pointing how good red mage was for these abilities!)

They tested all jobs and it was their conclusion. They also have a God BLM player in the form of Sfia. They never had to consider anything but damage, it was such a no-brainer for them to auto-slot a RDM with how SMN is.

Now, I get you could doubt me a little to know a guy who cleared world first but Kiona's a buddy of mine since 8 years, I'm met him so there you go;



Again, if you think the way casters are is fine. Then you just expose yourself at being extremely biased and wanting Red Mage to be overpowered compared to other casters. They chose Black Mage because they wanted a third ranged DPS, not because they believed Black Mage was the best caster. Even with the Phoenix buff which was more a fix then a buff, it's just not enough. Summoner suffers from heavy caveats from an over-simplified rotation that offers no flexibility and in a lot of scenarios anti-synergizes with their party member. The only redeeming factor if that it still bring utility over black mage should you not pick a red mage purely on progression but if you aim to clear at top level, then you're just sandbagging yourself from not using the best available job. Pride shouldn't get over your desire to perform at peak level.

The only good and valid argument to pick Summoner over Red Mage is "you don't need a meta team to clear, play what you like." An argument which is being used for our Dancer, Machinist, White Mages, Paladins, Samurais and Dragoons friends right now.

Originally Posted by Aikaal

The only good and valid argument to pick Summoner over Red Mage is "you don't need a meta team to clear, play what you like." An argument which is being used for our Dancer, Machinist, White Mages, Paladins, Samurais and Dragoons friends right now.

I exist too (NIN ).
There's a dozen of us.

Originally Posted by Aikaal

Then you just expose yourself at being extremely biased and wanting Red Mage to be overpowered compared to other casters

Let us have this! We've had to go with being bad at the start of every epxansion so far! Let us our moment! Kappa

The problem is that red mage can do everything a summoner can do better, with SLIGHTLY less mobility. They can chain rez, their damage utility is stronger, and they also provide damage damage mitigation now.

This on top of them also dealing more damage.

I’ve always thought of summoner as the bard of casters. Black mage is the selfish caster with no utility, summoner has a little utility, and slightly less damage than black mage, and red mage is a little lower than summoner, but has a lot of utility.

This appeared to be the direction they were going in until the expansion actually came out. Red mage got magick barrier which in my mind was proof they were pushing red mage further into the support role.