Disappointed in one Endwalker Aspect [SPOILERS]

[StealthPaladin]

I mean, as far as I thought before reading this that IS the case. Hydaelyn may not have come across as a 'big bad' but she most definitely did temper us with her 'blessing of light'. The whole "hear, feel, think" -- that's her instructions just like the tempered hear the will of primals. The only difference is Hydaelyn is not focused on making a big flame or eating earth crystals. She is obsessed with Etheirys providing an adequate answer to Hermes's test

This is how Meteion tests for friendship upon meeting others:
I wish to hear your words, share your feelings, know your thoughts

Hydaelyn grew you into an aethero-dynamis payload. You are just a bomb delivery system. That's why she tells you to
Hear, feel, think

[Cleretic]

Hydaelyn may not have come across as a 'big bad' but she most definitely did temper us with her 'blessing of light'.

...no? No. This was never even remotely anything near the truth. All evidence ever asserted to be in favor of this was honestly nonsense, even before we learned in Endwalker what the Blessing of Light actually was.

In fact, I think the most telling argument against 'Hydaelyn tempered us' was always that, after we learned she was a primal, not one single person on any side of the story that would have reason to put these puzzle pieces together raised the notion that we might be tempered.

• Emet-Selch didn't, despite being the guy to say that he himself was tempered and who loves a play to make us seem equal.
• Elidibus didn't, despite being a primal himself and being desperate for justification that he was the good guy.
• Fandaniel didn't, despite having all the reason in the world to sow chaos and set us off.
• The Scions didn't, despite learning very specifically about the symptoms of tempering and how to detect them, and talking very directly about the WoL's relationship with Hydaelyn.

When the writers reject every opportunity to bring in the plot point you've decided is obvious, it might be time to admit you're not onto something.

[Vyrerus]

...no? No. This was never even remotely anything near the truth. All evidence ever asserted to be in favor of this was honestly nonsense, even before we learned in Endwalker what the Blessing of Light actually was.

In fact, I think the most telling argument against 'Hydaelyn tempered us' was always that, after we learned she was a primal, not one single person on any side of the story that would have reason to put these puzzle pieces together raised the notion that we might be tempered.

• Emet-Selch didn't, despite being the guy to say that he himself was tempered and who loves a play to make us seem equal.
• Elidibus didn't, despite being a primal himself and being desperate for justification that he was the good guy.
• Fandaniel didn't, despite having all the reason in the world to sow chaos and set us off.
• The Scions didn't, despite learning very specifically about the symptoms of tempering and how to detect them, and talking very directly about the WoL's relationship with Hydaelyn.

When the writers reject every opportunity to bring in the plot point you've decided is obvious, it might be time to admit you're not onto something.

Just when you thought the Tempering fight was over. BAM! Someone still sees it that way, lmao. Oh no. xD

[KariTheFox]

...no? No. This was never even remotely anything near the truth. All evidence ever asserted to be in favor of this was honestly nonsense, even before we learned in Endwalker what the Blessing of Light actually was.

In fact, I think the most telling argument against 'Hydaelyn tempered us' was always that, after we learned she was a primal, not one single person on any side of the story that would have reason to put these puzzle pieces together raised the notion that we might be tempered.

• Emet-Selch didn't, despite being the guy to say that he himself was tempered and who loves a play to make us seem equal.
• Elidibus didn't, despite being a primal himself and being desperate for justification that he was the good guy.
• Fandaniel didn't, despite having all the reason in the world to sow chaos and set us off.
• The Scions didn't, despite learning very specifically about the symptoms of tempering and how to detect them, and talking very directly about the WoL's relationship with Hydaelyn.

When the writers reject every opportunity to bring in the plot point you've decided is obvious, it might be time to admit you're not onto something.

I thought the matter of Hydaelyn tempering us was pretty settled when we learned that the blessing of light was a simple traveller's ward that protects against aetheric corruption.

Indeed, it seems like Hydaelyn'a whole philosphy is about giving you the means to think, wander, feel... etc. for yourself. Something the spirit of tempering goes against.

Also, tempering was something that could be scientifically and objectively measured by characters in the world. And cured. If we were tempered surely someone would have given us a porxie.

Also, the conversation with Y'sthola has her showing up and examining you too see if your aether was corrupted, like it was back in the first. And she saw nothing out of the ordinary.

[Cleretic]

I thought the matter of Hydaelyn tempering us was pretty settled when we learned that the blessing of light was a simple traveller's ward that protects against aetheric corruption.

Indeed, it seems like Hydaelyn'a whole philosphy is about giving you the means to think, wander, feel... etc. for yourself. Something the spirit of tempering goes against.

Also, tempering was something that could be scientifically and objectively measured by characters in the world. And cured. If we were tempered surely someone would have given us a porxie.

Also, the conversation with Y'sthola has her showing up and examining you too see if your aether was corrupted, like it was back in the first. And she saw nothing out of the ordinary.

Personally I thought the matter of Hydaelyn tempering us was pretty settled when Ifrit directly and clearly stated that we weren't back in A Realm Reborn. Like, if anyone can be considered a subject matter expert in what tempering looks like, surely it's Ifrit. But since I know not everyone agrees with me that he can be considered an authoritative source, I went elsewhere, since the people that disagree with that usually consider either the Scions or (more often) the Ascians to be authoritative.

Basically the only prediction in all of Endwalker that I absolutely nailed was 'people who think the Blessing is tempering wouldn't believe Hydaelyn herself coming down and saying it wasn't', and sure enough, she did exactly that and people didn't believe her!

[StealthPaladin]

(bla bla bla) ..it might be time to admit you're not onto something.

"That’s just like your opinion, man." -- The Dude

No need for salt.

My opinion is still that we exhibit every sign of tempering. That's what is happening in the opening cutscenes. It just happens to be that instead of placing you on a path to get her more and more aether she commands you to have free will. So is it the SAME as normal tempering, sure no; but only because of how she uses it.

Tempering works just like the echo, only at a smaller scale for smaller primals. That's not a coincidence so your conclusions about the writers is not really warranted. It's also the case that Ascians do constantly suggest you should be skeptical of your drive to support her.

Similarly it explains just why is it that, though you have all these choices, the outcomes send you down a set path. Gradually sending you on a journey to fulfill her singular goal -- the goal in Venat's mind when summoning Hydaelyn

Venat knows that we must answer Meteion's question, as I previously stated, which is:
"I wish to hear your words, share your feelings, know your thoughts"

That is why Hydaelyn's purpose is for you to hear, feel, think.

Her goals are stated.
WoL is most certainly enacting those goals.
We must hear, feel and think through suffering to bring hope and answer Meteion with that hope.

Though how Hydaelyn came about had not been fully decided by writers until recently -- This aspect has been the case in the story as written from the very beginning. We can see in the lyrics from 1.0 in the song "Answers" which really represents Hydaelyn's message that we're being tempered with.

Not to mention our collective "Answers" is exactly what we took with us to Ultima Thule.

Below I add notes to the lyrics linking it pretty strongly with this interpretation
(1/2)

[StealthPaladin]

Ascians:
I close my eyes, tell us why must we suffer
(the suffering Hydaelyn is always on about)
Release your hands, for your will drags us under
(fighting Zodiark)
My legs grow tired, tell us where must we wander
(Ascians constantly reborn into this fight)
How can we carry on if redemption's beyond us?
(desire to return to unsundered)

Hydaelyn:
To all of my children in whom Life flows abundant
(aether keeping the Final Days away)
To all of my children to whom Death hath passed his judgement
(Song of Despair)
The soul yearns for honor, and the flesh the hereafter
(life and death)
Look to those who walked before to lead those who walk after
(world before/after sundering)

Shining is the Land's light of justice
(again aether)
Ever flows the Land's well of purpose
(reasons to live, in the face of despair)
Walk free, walk free, walk free, believe
(desire of Hydaelyn, making the echo a different kind of tempering with freedom)
The Land is alive, so believe
(as other primals, she wants belief)

(chorus of tempering vvv)
Suffer"Feel"
Promise"Think"
Witness"Teach"
Reason"Hear"

Follow"Feel"
Wander"Think"
Stumble"Teach"
Listen"Speak"

Honor"Speak"
Value"Tell"
Whisper"Tell"
Mention"Hope"
Ponder"Hope"
Warrant"Wish"
Cherish"Wish"

Welcome"Roam"
Witness"Roam"
Listen"Roam"
Suffer"Roam"
Sanction"Sleep"
Weather"Sleep"
Wander"Sleep"
Sleep on (souls of ascians)
-----------
Now open your eyes while our plight is repeated
(new character == Azem's soul freshly reincarnated)

Still deaf to our cries, lost in hope we lie defeated
(world of Aumarot)

Our souls have been torn, and our bodies forsaken
Bearing sins of the past, for our future is taken
(sundering)

War born of strife, these trials persuade us not
(conflict with Zodiark's ascians)

Feel what? Learn what?
Words without sound, these lies betray our thoughts (because we're tempered)
Mired by a plague of doubt, the Land, she mourns
(Hydaelyn doesn't know if we'll have to flee with the moon or be able to master Dynamis)

See what? Hear what?
Judgement binds all we hold to a memory of scorn
(Final Days)

Tell us why, given Life, we are meant to die, helpless in our cries?
(hopelessness other civilizations have fallen to)

Witness "Feel"
Suffer "Think"
Borrow "Teach"
Reason "Hear"

Follow "Feel"
Stumble "Think"
Wander "Teach"
Listen "Blink"
Whisper "Blink"
Shoulder "Blink"
Ponder "Blink"
Weather "Hear"

Answer "Look"
Answer "Think"
Answer TOGETHER

Thy Life is a riddle, to bear rapture and sorrow
(YOUR PURPOSE TO STOP FINAL DAYS)
To listen, to suffer, to entrust unto tomorrow
(JOB IS SUFFER + SAVE FUTURE)
In one fleeting moment, from the Land doth life flow
(Final days return, death of Hydaelyn/Zodiark)

Yet in one fleeting moment, for anew it doth grow (song of Hope)
In the same fleeting moment thou must live, die and know

Answers from 1.0
(2/2)