More downgrades...(Pandaemonium Savage spoilers)

[Kaurhz]

thatsbait.gif

I'm glad to agree that everything as being not in accordance with your own point of view is narrowed down to being bait.

Well done for not contributing, or posting anything valid as a rebuttal. Now that's bait.

[kpxmanifesto]

I'm glad to agree that everything as being not in accordance with your own point of view is narrowed down to being bait.

Well done for not contributing, or posting anything valid as a rebuttal. Now that's bait.

Coming here and honestly saying that the criticism wasn't constructive is actually kind of funny at this point.

[Melorie]

Simply pointing out flaws in very selective pieces of content which is apparently a very setting trend on a couple of threads is just criticism, it is not constructive, and by the very nature of being selective will never be constructive, simply because it ignores the bigger picture and does not account for quantity can often be substituted for quality. Just compare Radz-at-Han and Old Sharlayan to Idyllshire and Rhalgrs Reach if you want an example of quality.

Sorry, just because you find Sharlayan prettier than Idyllshire doesn't mean that the lack of new songs or voice acting is less disappointing for some people. This isn't being constructive, this is "hey this thing here is enough for me to not care about other thing" which OK if it works for you, but people are different, some will see value and importance in things you don't. OP said that he found that it is disappointing that we did not get certain stuff which was to be expected... And that feedback is enough.

People here are not the devs to know what is good vs bad feedback, if anything they could've come here and say "well yes this happened, but also I don't care because I see quality in other areas", and instead they decide to call his post a tantrum. That's far from being constructive, either.

[Kaurhz]

Snip.

It's either insensitive or ignorant to suggest that certain things are no longer accepted as a valid excuse in your own prerogative. Sure it's disgusting, but it isn't like it isn't entirely valid, as it is by definition a caveat. The 6-7 month delay was to account for all the logistical issues that occur as a result. Granted they may have been objectively behind on their schedule, 90% efficiency and all, but the transitional period from office to WFH comes with many caveats to being able to meet deliverable targets. Sure, they do have other composers, but that is also a logistical issue in itself. You don't simply assign someone a new task. Project Management is a very rigid process and many of those composers would already be assigned their own tasks anyway. Who then takes over their task I ask?

Hiring is also an issue of itself. Multi-billion dollar or not. Square Enix or not. Could be any company for all I care. You need highly adept people for these positions with an astronomical amount of creativity. They aren't looking for individuals that have just graduated with very little or no portfolio. Nor are they looking for your local customer service assistant who's sole experience is RPG Maker in their spare time.

I don't think people necessarily disagree with the premise of your post, nor the post itself, but simply that there's a myriad of issues which aren't exactly inexcusable. I can agree with your point but make it apparently clear that it isn't just that simple.

I too hope people continue to voice their concerns, when they're concerns picked for a large pool of data and not just very selective areas. As of late this forum has had a knack for criticising content as though dungeons and Hildibrand are the only pieces of content to existing within the game.

The people that defend bad practice aren't defending their practice, they're simply disagreeing with you, or at the very least how blown out of proportion you've made this issue. People have their own criticisms and they just don't align with yours. That is called having an opinion so don't try and reshape the narrative on this point. Besides, if we are to be frank I think the concerning issue of glamour dresser space is more of an impending issue than them reusing 1 too many assets. The premise of a lot of these points I find are often taken in the stance that quantity is the only valid measure of content. When it is a culmination of both quantity and quality. Largely shifted towards the latter. It's a creative thing.

[Kaurhz]

Coming here and honestly saying that the criticism wasn't constructive is actually kind of funny at this point.

Constructive by definition results in actionable feedback, most of these posts do not. Being critical and constructive involves taking into account the bigger picture and whether themes are completely original, remixed or what have you. Because I can assure you it takes more effort to release an original piece than it does a remix.

But the irony that you should talk about constructive when the only contribution has been you falsely labelling a disagreement as being bait. Well done.

Sorry, just because you find Sharlayan prettier than Idyllshire doesn't mean that the lack of new songs or voice acting is less disappointing for some people. This isn't being constructive, this is "hey this thing here is enough for me to not care about other thing" which OK if it works for you, but people are different, some will see value and importance in things you don't. OP said that he found that it is disappointing that we did not get certain stuff which was to be expected... And that feedback is enough.

People here are not the devs to know what is good vs bad feedback, if anything they could've come here and say "well yes this happened, but also I don't care because I see quality in other areas", and instead they decide to call his post a tantrum. That's far from being constructive, either.

No my point was that quantity will often be substituted for quality and gave a very simple example of this. You're free to express your disappointment, but if your only measure of this is quantity then you'll always be disappointed. Besides, it's this level of mentality that leads to a stagnation in innovation in the long run - Because the only thing you're arguing in the first place is the quantity quota in relation to previous expansions. I'd prefer to withhold my judgement until I've seen both Deep Dungeon and Island Sanctuary as that will be a bigger indicator, not just your immeasurable disappointment in a couple of themes or reused models.

Yes people here are not devs so I'm pretty sure they know better than yourself, or myself what is and isn't worthwhile pouring their resources into. Just FYI I never said that they were constructive in their response. Just argued that the contents of the start of the thread weren't necessarily all that constructive to begin with.

[kpxmanifesto]

Constructive by definition results in actionable feedback, most of these posts do not. Being critical and constructive involves taking into account the bigger picture and whether themes are completely original, remixed or what have you. Because I can assure you it takes more effort to release an original piece than it does a remix.

But the irony that you should talk about constructive when the only contribution has been you falsely labelling a disagreement as being bait. Well done.

The whole premise of the post is to bring light to the fact that phase 2 of p4s lacks a new theme, and to ask for additional music. But, that's not actionable feedback?? This is why your post comes off as trolling.

[Kaurhz]

The whole premise of the post is to bring light to the fact that phase 2 of p4s lacks a new theme, and to ask for additional music. But, that's not actionable feedback?? This is why your post comes off as trolling.

Bringing light to an issue is 1 thing entirely, but to use such a restrictive dataset in order to present your criticism as a fact is something entirely different. Music exists outside of the scope of both dungeons and raids. Hence why I said I would reserve my judgement in this regard until they've started actually pushing out side content. Because, you know, themes can exist in there too.

But like I said to someone else, if your only yardstick is going to be quantity then you're just creating something that can lead to stagnation. Because how dare they try and branch out and shift their focus from being a wider content scope as opposed to a narrow one.

[Melorie]

No my point was that quantity will often be substituted for quality and gave a very simple example of this.

You're talking like I only care about quantity, but that's not true. However, the quality can be on many things, and I prefer the quality way more on raids for example than cities. Cities in FFXIV are useless, glorified hubs to me. Most of the expansion, I hardly spend time there besides the MSQ, and they're far from being immersive, so I couldn't care less if they're more and more pretty. Iconic bosses with voice acting and specific music themes for things are ingrained in my memory for long, long times and are the things I remember most fondly. As I said, it's a matter of preferences. Some things are trivial for you, while for others it isn't.

Yes people here are not devs so I'm pretty sure they know better than yourself, or myself what is and isn't worthwhile pouring their resources into. Just FYI I never said that they were constructive in their response. Just argued that the contents of the start of the thread weren't necessarily all that constructive to begin with.

It wasn't my intention to act like you said something. But the poster I did quote from and that you decided to answer for them was demanding something constructive without even elaborating, and simply being insulting.
IMO the thread is very to the point: the music and voice acting of the new raid are lacking. Maybe the tone of the OP doesn't suit everyone, but it's a valid concern regardless. That's, after all, what the forum is for. As I said, if this is constructive or not, only the devs can tell. They did ask us to provide feedback, though.

[TheMax1087]

While i understand being disappointed by p2 not having an original song, it only takes a few seconds to go through all the previous p2's to realize that only one other p2 has an original song (o12s), while every other one is a slightly updated remix of an old ff theme (o4s is ff5, o8s is ff6, and e12s is ff8), so calling this a downgrade is weird.

[Kaurhz]

You're talking like I only care about quantity, but that's not true. However, the quality can be on many things, and I prefer the quality way more on raids for example than cities. Cities in FFXIV are useless, glorified hubs to me. Most of the expansion, I hardly spend time there besides the MSQ, and they're far from being immersive, so I couldn't care less if they're more and more pretty. Iconic bosses with voice acting and specific music themes for things are ingrained in my memory for long, long times and are the things I remember most fondly. As I said, it's a matter of preferences. Some things are trivial for you, while for others it isn't.



It wasn't my intention to act like you said something. But the poster I did quote from and that you decided to answer for them was demanding something constructive without even elaborating, and simply being insulting.
IMO the thread is very to the point: the music and voice acting of the new raid are lacking. Maybe the tone of the OP doesn't suit everyone, but it's a valid concern regardless. That's, after all, what the forum is for. As I said, if this is constructive or not, only the devs can tell. They did ask us to provide feedback, though.

I don't care for the tone of the poster - A point is a point for me regardless of the tone with which it is presented. But whilst we're on this, I only take issue with the deliberate restrictive sets of data they've elected to use in order to present their information. If you're going to stick to that mentality of only dungeons, raids and a market board, then I am sorry but you're neglecting a large portion of the game already (still in development btw) - Each of which will have their own themes and sets of glamour. Especially when said poster has on several occasions done nothing but push the agenda that every expansion has seen naught but cuts, simply because they're only willing to stick to their very limited scope of dungeons, raids, and a couple sets of market board gear.

What people fail to neglect is that a vast majority of their themes in the game are derived remixes from other games in the franchise. This is above everything else an FF game and most themes pay homage to that. So in reality they aren't as original or new as people would like to believe.