The MSQ Endwalker Trial Bosses are WAY too hard for newer players to FFXIV

[Intellion]

Nah, personally I'd have a proper story mode with "skip to cut scene" button.

You see, it's really these kinds of smooth-brain takes, alongside with the incompetence I normally witness from Duty Finder coming from non-sprout/non-returner Lv. 90 players, that further reinforces my belief that SE nerfing Steps of Faith and Royal Menagerie were really massive mistakes.

Steps of Faith and Royal Menagerie shouldn't just be un-nerfed, but a "min-ilvl" requirement should also be imposed upon both MSQ trials. Those two trials should once again serve the same purpose that they served when they were new: a natural filter to bad/lazy players who refuse to learn basic competence.

Much like any other single-player Final Fantasy game, FFXIV should be no different. Progressing through the story should not be a privilege, but an achievement. Much like the single-player FFs, if you're a smooth-brain player who refuse to learn the game mechanics and get better, then you deserve to get walled by some boss fight and be denied to see the continuation of the story until you actually invest the effort to learn from your mistakes and overcome said boss.

Do not conflate new players with bad players, because as a FFXIV veteran, I've already encountered countless sprouts who not only actually practice their rotations, but also actively learn after every wipe on a new dungeon/trial and actually clear it on the second or third try.


If you choose to be bad/lazy, you deserve to get walled by bosses. You wanna see the continuation of your story? Then either git gud, or watch the story in YouTube.

[TaleraRistain]

Much like any other single-player Final Fantasy game, FFXIV should be no different. Progressing through the story should not be a privilege, but an achievement. Much like the single-player FFs, if you're a smooth-brain player who refuse to learn the game mechanics and get better, then you deserve to get walled by some boss fight and be denied to see the continuation of the story until you actually invest the effort to learn from your mistakes and overcome said boss.

Your realize trying to use other single player Final Fantasy games as a reason for gatekeeping is entirely backwards, right? Outside of weird ones like XIII, you could go overlevel and curbstomp those bosses. Which is exactly what we do with Very Easy, or Echo, or getting players in higher level gear to carry foiks who are struggling. They didn't nerf Shinryu at first. Those of us who passed just helped along those who were having troubles, especially when we started overgearing it.

If someone can't handle that they may get randomly grouped with less than perfect players and have to step up their game to make up for it....don't let the game match them with random players?

[Endariel]

Follow the mob
Works 97% of time
Even in extremes

[Intellion]

Your realize trying to use other single player Final Fantasy games as a reason for gatekeeping is entirely backwards, right? Outside of weird ones like XIII, you could go overlevel and curbstomp those bosses. Which is exactly what we do with Very Easy, or Echo, or getting players in higher level gear to carry foiks who are struggling. They didn't nerf Shinryu at first. Those of us who passed just helped along those who were having troubles, especially when we started overgearing it.

No, my analogy works just fine.


In the single-player FF games, if a boss is kicking your ass and you decide to step back for a while to grind for levels and get better gear, and then end up curbstomping said boss with far stronger and better-prepared characters, congratulations. You actually invested the time and effort to train and improve your characters via grinding instead of crying for a way to skip the struggle altogether. Sure, powerleveling may not be the biggest-brain strat, but it's a legitimate strategy regardless. In other words, you learned from your mistake and utilized a different approach to beat the boss walling you. You improved and earned your reward.


Investing the time and effort to powerlevel and gear up to beat a boss is not the same as crying and whining for a "skip battle" or an "instant-win button" every time you get walled by a boss.
In the end, you are playing a video game, not watching a movie. The MSQ doesn't have to be Extreme/Savage difficulty, but it shouldn't cater to the "bottom-of-the-barrel smoothbrain players" either. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the game asking for even just basic gameplay competence from its players, as all games should.


And just as a heads up, FFXIV's MSQ does not, nor has it ever, required absolute perfection from its players, not even pre-nerf Steps of Faith or Royal Menagerie. All the MSQ requires is, once again, basic competence and nothing more. So if you're one of those players crying that the MSQ is "too hard/should stop being Extreme-level difficulty/should be nerfed/etc," then I'm sorry to say, but that is a 100% YOU problem, not a game design problem, and you need to go back to Lv. 50 content or earlier to pick up basic competence in your job. This is a case where "Git Gud" is very much a valid advice.

[Fhaerron]

The only issue I had with the Trials was that you couldn't use trusts for the first trial. Being late to the party meant everyone just drug me around instead of letting me learn the fight, and I had no alternative if I didn't want that. Letting us use trusts if we still wanted that blind experience would be nice.
I know they're frustrated because they've done the fight multiple times and are doing it on roulettes now, but it's just as frustrating to be rescued around and have people type the solutions to the mechanics in chat when you don't want it.

But so do trusts. Trusts will in 98% of the times correctly execute mechanics and you just need to follow them.

[Kuroka]

You see, it's really these kinds of smooth-brain takes, alongside with the incompetence I normally witness from Duty Finder coming from non-sprout/non-returner Lv. 90 players, that further reinforces my belief that SE nerfing Steps of Faith and Royal Menagerie were really massive mistakes.

Steps of Faith and Royal Menagerie shouldn't just be un-nerfed, but a "min-ilvl" requirement should also be imposed upon both MSQ trials. Those two trials should once again serve the same purpose that they served when they were new: a natural filter to bad/lazy players who refuse to learn basic competence.

Much like any other single-player Final Fantasy game, FFXIV should be no different. Progressing through the story should not be a privilege, but an achievement. Much like the single-player FFs, if you're a smooth-brain player who refuse to learn the game mechanics and get better, then you deserve to get walled by some boss fight and be denied to see the continuation of the story until you actually invest the effort to learn from your mistakes and overcome said boss.

Do not conflate new players with bad players, because as a FFXIV veteran, I've already encountered countless sprouts who not only actually practice their rotations, but also actively learn after every wipe on a new dungeon/trial and actually clear it on the second or third try.


If you choose to be bad/lazy, you deserve to get walled by bosses. You wanna see the continuation of your story? Then either git gud, or watch the story in YouTube.

/signed.

Its exactly that, IF ppl reallly only care for the story go youtube - you can still RP all day in limsa if you have to...

[van_arn]

No, my analogy works just fine.


In the single-player FF games, if a boss is kicking your ass and you decide to step back for a while to grind for levels and get better gear, and then end up curbstomping said boss with far stronger and better-prepared characters, congratulations. You actually invested the time and effort to train and improve your characters via grinding instead of crying for a way to skip the struggle altogether. Sure, powerleveling may not be the biggest-brain strat, but it's a legitimate strategy regardless. In other words, you learned from your mistake and utilized a different approach to beat the boss walling you. You improved and earned your reward.


Investing the time and effort to powerlevel and gear up to beat a boss is not the same as crying and whining for a "skip battle" or an "instant-win button" every time you get walled by a boss.
In the end, you are playing a video game, not watching a movie. The MSQ doesn't have to be Extreme/Savage difficulty, but it shouldn't cater to the "bottom-of-the-barrel smoothbrain players" either. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the game asking for even just basic gameplay competence from its players, as all games should.


And just as a heads up, FFXIV's MSQ does not, nor has it ever, required absolute perfection from its players, not even pre-nerf Steps of Faith or Royal Menagerie. All the MSQ requires is, once again, basic competence and nothing more. So if you're one of those players crying that the MSQ is "too hard/should stop being Extreme-level difficulty/should be nerfed/etc," then I'm sorry to say, but that is a 100% YOU problem, not a game design problem, and you need to go back to Lv. 50 content or earlier to pick up basic competence in your job. This is a case where "Git Gud" is very much a valid advice.

Not to mention grinding exists in this game, too. You hit a combat dummy until you can be not bad. If you still fail, you hit the dummy more.

I'm still bad so I still hit the dummy.

[Juun]

I died more on Titania in ShB then I have on the EW trial bosses.

[ArkenaeuxBelmont]

No, my analogy works just fine.


In the single-player FF games, if a boss is kicking your ass and you decide to step back for a while to grind for levels and get better gear, and then end up curbstomping said boss with far stronger and better-prepared characters, congratulations. You actually invested the time and effort to train and improve your characters via grinding instead of crying for a way to skip the struggle altogether. Sure, powerleveling may not be the biggest-brain strat, but it's a legitimate strategy regardless. In other words, you learned from your mistake and utilized a different approach to beat the boss walling you. You improved and earned your reward.


Investing the time and effort to powerlevel and gear up to beat a boss is not the same as crying and whining for a "skip battle" or an "instant-win button" every time you get walled by a boss.
In the end, you are playing a video game, not watching a movie. The MSQ doesn't have to be Extreme/Savage difficulty, but it shouldn't cater to the "bottom-of-the-barrel smoothbrain players" either. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the game asking for even just basic gameplay competence from its players, as all games should.


And just as a heads up, FFXIV's MSQ does not, nor has it ever, required absolute perfection from its players, not even pre-nerf Steps of Faith or Royal Menagerie. All the MSQ requires is, once again, basic competence and nothing more. So if you're one of those players crying that the MSQ is "too hard/should stop being Extreme-level difficulty/should be nerfed/etc," then I'm sorry to say, but that is a 100% YOU problem, not a game design problem, and you need to go back to Lv. 50 content or earlier to pick up basic competence in your job. This is a case where "Git Gud" is very much a valid advice.

Basically all of this. It's been said over and over, no one is expecting savage tier level play out of MSQ things, or even Duty Finder things. What should be expected is a basic level of competence with mechanics and job understanding.

You can eat mechanics by mistakes. You can make mistakes. No one is going to get upset or go off on anyone if *they are trying*.

People ARE going to get upset at the completely lazy, not-caring "I don't wanna" attitude. "I just want a free skip.", "MSQ shouldn't have these requirements", etc.

[TaleraRistain]

And just as a heads up, FFXIV's MSQ does not, nor has it ever, required absolute perfection from its players, not even pre-nerf Steps of Faith or Royal Menagerie. All the MSQ requires is, once again, basic competence and nothing more. So if you're one of those players crying that the MSQ is "too hard/should stop being Extreme-level difficulty/should be nerfed/etc," then I'm sorry to say, but that is a 100% YOU problem, not a game design problem, and you need to go back to Lv. 50 content or earlier to pick up basic competence in your job. This is a case where "Git Gud" is very much a valid advice.

Yes, I know, I've been here 7 years now. Why do people always try to go to this argument? Good players can advocate for the MSQ being smoother to appeal to a wider audience. I have absolutely no problem carrying folks on my back that I will never see again after that run, especially if it means they can share in the enjoyment of the story the way I do. There is already plenty of content to pit ourselves against and conquer. The story is something we can all share. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if people with your outlook at why we have Trusts now. That way people who simply enjoy the story can get their carry and continue on.