Dear WoW refugees and returning players

[Kolaina]

The OP is wrong though. The average distribution of skill remains the same. The thing is there are A LOT more people and a lot of NEW people. So the chances of you getting someone who's either new and unfamiliar (in which case you can teach them after one or two deaths), or simply not skilled, are higher.


Let's not get all hoity toity and act like FFXIV used to have a concentration of high skill players. Hardcore raiders and Extreme/Ultimate/Savage content has always been a minority. All the new people simply lack experience and familiarity. Lets give them that chance.

The op is not wrong. You can see it in nearly any alliance raid. People either are incapable of comprehending mechanics or refuse to. Any time I personally say anything about how a mechanic is done, it gets dismissed as “it’s just X raid” or dungeon or whatever. This community excuses poor play and finishes the value of learning how to be better. You don’t have to be doing savages or extremes to try and handle mechanics properly or know your rotations. Let’s not pretend like there are bad players out there and on top of them, people who excuse them so they don’t get better

[Krotoan]

The op is not wrong. You can see it in nearly any alliance raid. People either are incapable of comprehending mechanics or refuse to. Any time I personally say anything about how a mechanic is done, it gets dismissed as “it’s just X raid” or dungeon or whatever. This community excuses poor play and finishes the value of learning how to be better. You don’t have to be doing savages or extremes to try and handle mechanics properly or know your rotations. Let’s not pretend like there are bad players out there and on top of them, people who excuse them so they don’t get better

None of what you said counters what I said. You're encountering them more because the overall active player base is bigger. Past a certain point in the expansions life this surplus will fade and all that will be left are people who play the game constantly and maintenance players logging in every other month or so. Then the "skill" level will perceivably go back "up".. except not, because all that happened was the population reduced down to the people who play the game all the time.

We're not suddenly awash in the skill less.

I never said to pretend bad players don't exist. I'm saying OP's assertion that suddenly the entire playerbase is full of bad players is based on confirmation bias and elitist assumption.


As far as I've experienced people are perfectly willing to learn as long as you suggest improvements, not demand them. Ran the WoL trial last night in fact. Half the party had no idea what to do, died to the "easy' first part a couple times. I started coaching and we got through the rest in one go... strange that.


Dying doesn't matter all that much, taking a few more minutes for a run isn't going to kill anyone. Having demands like "Watch a video/learn the mechanics before doing anything in DF" is elitist BS.

[MaxCarnage]

None of what you said counters what I said. You're encountering them more because the overall active player base is bigger. Past a certain point in the expansions life this surplus will fade and all that will be left are people who play the game constantly and maintenance players logging in every other month or so. Then the "skill" level will perceivably go back "up".. except not, because all that happened was the population reduced down to the people who play the game all the time.

We're not suddenly awash in the skill less.

I never said to pretend bad players don't exist. I'm saying OP's assertion that suddenly the entire playerbase is full of bad players is based on confirmation bias and elitist assumption.


As far as I've experienced people are perfectly willing to learn as long as you suggest improvements, not demand them. Ran the WoL trial last night in fact. Half the party had no idea what to do, died to the "easy' first part a couple times. I started coaching and we got through the rest in one go... strange that.


Dying doesn't matter all that much, taking a few more minutes for a run isn't going to kill anyone. Having demands like "Watch a video/learn the mechanics before doing anything in DF" is elitist BS.

I mean, it does dispute your claims. They're talking averages. You may have more people playing, but the over all average in player skill has decreased. If you have 50 people playing and 25 are good, then your average of good players is going to be increasingly different than if you have 500 players and 25 are good. You can say it's because there are more people to be exposed to, but that doesn't change the fact that the average of good players is lower.

And I personally believe it's because people coddle and baby players, so worried about hurting each other's feelings and "ruining their experience" that suddenly only that new person's experience matters.

Should you demand people to learn a fight before doing it? No. But you also shouldn't expect everyone to be happy to carry someone who doesn't want to put the effort in. Why should I put in the effort so you don't have to?

But keep denying bad players are becoming more prevalent, you only make the problem worse.

[Krotoan]

I mean, it does dispute your claims. They're talking averages. You may have more people playing, but the over all average in player skill has decreased.

If you have 50 people playing and 25 are good, then your average of good players is going to be increasingly different than if you have 500 players and 25 are good. You can say it's because there are more people to be exposed to, but that doesn't change the fact that the average of good players is lower.

This is assuming that ALL of the new players are bad. Considering being a FFXIV vet isn't some magical high gravity training ground that turns you into a super saiyan... I'm gonna bet that the same distribution of good/bad players is native to whatever game you came from. FFXIV isn't particularly difficult or complex. The WoW "refugees" that the OP is denigrating are probably just as good if not better at dealing with predictable mechanics in general since that game does sort of the same thing but with some RNG thrown in with weird gear spec dependent results.

All in all the likelihood that everyone got worse is a lot lower than the likelihood that people are just new and unfamiliar with the game. They aren't unskilled, they are simply uneducated.

And I personally believe it's because people coddle and baby players, so worried about hurting each other's feelings and "ruining their experience" that suddenly only that new person's experience matters.

As that's your opinion I can't exactly say you're wrong, but in general I personally find people who claim this want carte blanche to "yell" at people who do things "wrong". They don't like they can't heap blame and try to shame people into playing well so they call "CAREBEARS!" and proceed to complain about people being patient.

Should you demand people to learn a fight before doing it? No. But you also shouldn't expect everyone to be happy to carry someone who doesn't want to put the effort in. Why should I put in the effort so you don't have to?

I don't expect people to be happy to carry dead weight. However I also notice that people are incredibly quick to claim dead weight without even trying to help. "OMG YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT! GO WATCH A VIDEO!"

But keep denying bad players are becoming more prevalent, you only make the problem worse.

I have been playing this game for 10 years, I can pretty confidently say I've seen this cycle of swell and ebb go by exactly as it always has and within 6-7 months we'll be right back to "high skill" numbers.

Patient and understanding coaching and positive reinforcement grow the new sprouts into useful and contributing members of the community. Yelling at them and shaming them into seeking outside education before even attempting content will turn them into elitist grindy content locusts.. or just turn them off to the game entirely.