Healer design is still terrible and I'm tired of apologizing for it.

[OtakuSempai]

25+ pages to scroll through but I tried. What would you do differently? If you could create a meaningful healer gameplay..pick whichever healer you'd like for the example. Keep in mind all content and their difficulty. Curious to see where certain people like to go with their ..ideas.

Or if this was answered in the lost pages, let me know where and I'll take a look.

Well meaningful healer gameplay to me is well, healing. I don't really do a lot of it in this game if I'm performing well, which funnels me into a loop of spamming 1 button for dps.

I would like to see more healer checks in the game in general that required me to flex my knowledge of the kit. Or barring that, something more engaging in my kit then simply a clone of whm where I'm just spamming 1 nuke.

I actually find SCH the most enjoyable to play right now, only because I have an alternative avenue for dumping resources. The rotation is not even more complex than other healers but the fact that I can manage my resources in alternative ways lights my brain up in ways other healers don't. Why not add more resource management to healers?

[Leigaon]

...I would like to see more healer checks in the game in general that required me to flex my knowledge of the kit. Or barring that, something more engaging in my kit then simply a clone of whm where I'm just spamming 1 nuke...

What would be a situation either that exists in the game or that you can make up yourself that would be fun for everyone as a healer and get them to use more of what is in their kit. Or would that require some refurbishing of current skills to get it right? What would you have the offensive spells do, if anything, to assist with the defensive side of a scholars toolkit?

Either up the CD timers of abilities or increase raid wide/unavoidable damage so I am not using the same CD for everything.

Ex: I stated earlier I can use Exaltation 100% over Celestial Intersection for tank busters in just dungeon content alone because they come ~ every 60. If Exaltation was every 90s I'd instead use CI. Conversely if another tank specific attack happened in the same fight in under 60s that would make better use of Exalt (perhaps a short heavy bleed) I'd use Exalt there and cover the next TB with CI because the shielding was better.

- Prune redundant abilities by making them into upgrades at higher levels while still keeping them at lower levels.

Ex: There is no better example than Benefic and Cure 1 to Benefic and Cure 2. The trait for it would be hard to place, because I believe WHM has some issues with Cure 2 straight up overriding Cure 1 in some situations... but that is something that better skill leveling touches imo.

- Allow parts of our kit to play more with one another than just X

Ex: Good one for AST is Synastry. I love the ability. It only works for Benefic why? Instead of two CI charges Synastry can be used for it to place CI on both Tank/other target along with ED, A.Benefic and pretty much anything but the cards if its single target (unless you want it to also work with cards and/or Astrodyne and deal with the rebalancing headache that can cause)...

I want to make sure I'm seeing this correctly so I can understand where you're coming from.

1. Reduce/Adjust the time of some of the higher cooldowns on certain jobs so you have the option to use the best action for your healer depending on the situation. In this case Exaltation (120s) vs Celestial Intersection (60s, 2 charges.).

For this example, would you be okay with reducing CI's cooldown to say 30/45/60 seconds and in return reduce the healed potency?

2. Condense spells and instead give them upgrades of previous spells. In this case Cure/Benefic 1 & 2. I'm not sure about having issues with Cure 2 override Cure 1, I rarely am using Cure 2 though outside of Ex's. But that's just me. I think upgrading them at the same level as Ast (26) would be fine. To you, would this be to help reduce bloating with actions or just the fact that having them as separate spells seems redundant?

3. Have actions / abilities / buffs interact more with each other like Synergy but expanded through other abilities. So instead of Synergy just healing target B while you heal target A you could do other moves that would heal or maybe even enhance other players.

Actually, I'm sure I need to think on it more. I wonder if someone can tell us why having Synergy for instance is only limited to single target cures. Would having a boost from other abilities such as Earthly Star or Collective Unconscious cause unbalance. More than just saying "you'd have to balance other healers..." I'm looking for some specifics. Not saying you have them, but it's a good question. What would it break?

[QooEr]

What would be a situation either that exists in the game or that you can make up yourself that would be fun for everyone as a healer and get them to use more of what is in their kit.

a fight as heal intensive as living liquid or bjcc in tea, for starters. e11s cycles. the frequent damage in e12s p1. a8s robot phase. those are all very heal intensive phases. long enough to be more than just cure iii spam for a few gcds, but short enough that you need to use every tool at your disposal to get past them.

even in casual content you can have more interesting healing without going to such extremes. great gubal library's first miniboss autoattacks the party randomly, and it sure as hell ensures i have to at least actually pay attention to the party list more than once a minute, which is something i cannot say of even some savage floors. (anyone remember e7s lmao??)

if the devs are going to give healers multiple near full party heals every minute, then they should make the party take damage accordingly.

[Leigaon]

...even in casual content you can have more interesting healing without going to such extremes. great gubal library's first miniboss autoattacks the party randomly, and it sure as hell ensures i have to at least actually pay attention to the party list more than once a minute, which is something i cannot say of even some savage floors. (anyone remember e7s lmao??) ...

Okay, I took a look at a guide for E-12 savage phase 1. Lots of dancing. What comes up to me with the library example is something like the first boss in the Vault that targets a random person. For the trash or the environment of the dungeon as a whole you're then looking at wide area damage from mobs or environment, target players other than the tank for damage. Taking the savage examples and putting them into casual content (to a lesser extent) as players roam through dungeons or instances, that would make for more exciting healing gameplay?

Along with the other suggestions of cool down adjustment, expanding abilities (the AST synergy example that was given) along with a 1 - 2 - 3 combo for offensive spells. This would all come out to be fun healing?

[OtakuSempai]

Okay, I took a look at a guide for E-12 savage phase 1. Lots of dancing. What comes up to me with the library example is something like the first boss in the Vault that targets a random person. For the trash or the environment of the dungeon as a whole you're then looking at wide area damage from mobs or environment, target players other than the tank for damage. Taking the savage examples and putting them into casual content (to a lesser extent) as players roam through dungeons or instances, that would make for more exciting healing gameplay?

... along with a 1 - 2 - 3 combo for offensive spells.

I don't think anyone here is advocating for 1-2-3 combo for healer downtime rotations. Sure, it would be an easy way to spice up gameplay for healers during downtime and would probably cost minimal dev resources, but it would be lazy and uninspired.

Personally, I would love to see more resource management involved in the moment to moment gameplay, which would allow more depth for veteran players while not being overbearing on new players.

Let me have more ways to interact with kardia and addersting on sage for example. Or ways to manipulate seals/cards that change up your damage phase on ast. Maybe have a mini blm rotation on whm that used stone and wind abilities that interacted with lilies. There's a lot you can add that adds more interaction with the existing kits/job guages without adding a full on damage rotation per se.

[Leigaon]

I don't think anyone here is advocating for 1-2-3 combo for healer downtime rotations. Sure, it would be an easy way to spice up gameplay for healers during downtime and would probably cost minimal dev resources, but it would be lazy and uninspired.

Personally, I would love to see more resource management involved in the moment to moment gameplay, which would allow more depth for veteran players while not being overbearing on new players.

Let me have more ways to interact with kardia and addersting on sage for example. Or ways to manipulate seals/cards that change up your damage phase on ast. Maybe have a mini blm rotation on whm that used stone and wind abilities that interacted with lilies. There's a lot you can add that adds more interaction with the existing kits/job guages without adding a full on damage rotation per se.

If no one wants the 1 - 2 - 3 combo, are you looking at offensive spells that trigger other spells whether they're offensive or defensive? Would you like to have a Light magic / wind magic / water magic stances or something similar to BLM orbs?

What would you want to manipulate on AST cards? Duration? Power of Buff? AoE? Changing Buff?

Would you change how Lilies are accumulated right now to fit into the game play others might find more meaningful? Or would you rather they are gathered by other abilities and expanding it? Or would you like to have it on a timer like with Sage?

[HyoMinPark]

If no one wants the 1 - 2 - 3 combo, are you looking at offensive spells that trigger other spells whether they're offensive or defensive? Would you like to have a Light magic / wind magic / water magic stances or something similar to BLM orbs?

I’d be happy with a second DoT to manage on healers. Pre-ShB WHM had Aero II and Aero III—both were different durations, so you had to monitor both; and Aero III was even an AOE DoT, so it was something different to throw on things like dungeon pulls rather than spamming Holy until your eyes bleed. SCH used to have Bio I, Bio II, Miasma, and Miasma II; and I honestly loved juggling all of those. I’d settle for even just Bio I and Bio II at this point (different durations, please, so I have something to pay attention to and not just refresh them back to back all the time). AST lost its multiple DoTs with SB, but it still had the cards; so I can kind of excuse it for having just 1 DoT 1 Nuke since there’s a bit more to do.

What would you want to manipulate on AST cards? Duration? Power of Buff? AoE? Changing Buff?

Yes, actually. That’s how AST used to be designed. Each card did something different—3 were offensive buffs and 3 were utility cards. Royal Road could Extend, Enhance, or Expand the buffs; they weren’t just rinky-dink single targets all the time. ShB changed that to make them all 3%/6% buff cards and threw the Seal mechanic on there as justification for keeping all 6 versus trashing 4 of them.

I don’t know how familiar you are with old AST, but here’s a quick summary of what each card and Royal Road effect did by the end of SB (there were potency changes and duration changes for several from HW until then):
- Bole: +20% mitigation on target for 30 seconds (perfect on a tank for dungeon pulls)
- Balance: +10% damage on target for 30 seconds (everyone’s favorite card)
- Spear: +10% critical hit change on target for 30 seconds (before it was a cooldown reduction that only worked on CDs used while it was active on a party member; very lackluster and usually used as Royal Road fodder. When they changed it, it became SB BRD and MNK’s favorite card)
- Arrow: +10% weaponskill cast and recast speed increase for 30 seconds (BLM’s favorite card; SAMs also didn’t mind it. Perfect card if you wanted to punish/troll your MCH or NIN, too)
- Spire: TP regeneration for 20 seconds (Royal Road or Minor Arcana fodder most of the time - easily the least missed card buff)
- Ewer: MP regeneration for 20 seconds (actually decent for AST in SB since they had MP issues if you didn’t time Lucid + COpp for extended mana regen on cooldown, or if your party lacked a physical ranged with Refresh/caster with Mana Shift)

Royal Road effects:
- Bole or Balance = Enhanced effect, which gave you +150% enhanced effect of the card
- Spear or Arrow = Extended effect, which doubled the duration of the card
- Spire or Ewer = Expanded effect, which halved the effect of the card but expanded it to the whole party (e.g., Expanded Balanced was +5% for the whole party for 30 seconds)

Throw in COpp and Time Dilation to extend the effects further on the party or a single party member, and AST was so much fun.

I may just be an AST boomer, but I really cannot express how much fun I had on AST with the old card system versus the system we have now. And I’ll never not miss it.

Would you change how Lilies are accumulated right now to fit into the game play others might find more meaningful? Or would you rather they are gathered by other abilities and expanding it? Or would you like to have it on a timer like with Sage?

Personally, I find Addersgall to be a better Lily/Aetherflow system. It’s passive and generates on its own; the skills tied to it are oGCD so that you don’t have to use a GCD to burn the resource—WHM doesn’t really need to use their lilies for weaves anymore with the cast time change, so they lost a lot of utility there; and mobility is higher since slidecasting is easier now. Addersgall also doesn’t have a damage ability tied to it that results in either a resource burn (Energy Drain) or a DPS loss (Misery). If they want to keep Misery on the Lilies, then they need to make it worth using the lilies to build for it. Right now, Misery is a huge DPS loss outside of generating it during downtime. Much like Addersting on SGE, and I have similar complaints about it and Toxikon.