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  1. #1
    Player
    C0ATL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    8
    Character
    Coatl Voidborn
    World
    Omega
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    Blood Weapon removed; it's just a (finnicky) free Edge/Flood per minute, basically bloat.
    Darkside removed; potencies increased to compensate. It was a waste of gauge anyways.
    Dark Arts is now just a proc that appears on your status bar, rather than requiring its own UI element.
    Abyssal Drain and C&S given 2 charges, at 30s recharge time.
    Blood Weapon removed; it's just a (finnicky) free Edge/Flood per minute, basically bloat.
    Darkside removed; potencies increased to compensate. It was a waste of gauge anyways.
    Dark Arts is now just a proc that appears on your status bar, rather than requiring its own UI element. Yes, it still highlights your spenders to show your next cast is free.
    Oblation increased to 15% mitigation but its duration has been reduced from 10 to 7 seconds.
    Abyssal Drain and C&S given 2 charges, at 30s recharge time.
    Abyssal MP gen increase to 600 MP per enemy hit, C&S to 1800 MP (since it appears to hit thrice).
    C&S heals for 600 potency (3 hits of 200 potency each).
    Living Shadow reworked to have a far more responsive summon and thereafter reduce your damage by 25% while your shadow duplicates your actions at 50% effectiveness (for a net 12.5% damage increase from each action itself and 50% increase to Blood, HP, and MP generation). Duration reduced to compensate.
    Like these changes. Blood weapon should be baked into Delirium. Its the same CD, and ppl use it at the same time anyway. Button bloat at this point. I wouldnt call it a minimalistic fix, since it removes 2 of the 'class mechanic gauges' and those would need to be replaced with something, just like all the other classes have.
    Only issue I have with your suggestions is Living Dead being a longer Holmgang. The reason why I didnt include this into my initial post, despite thinking about it was because i dont want another ability taken from warrior , renamed, and given to the dark knight. No, I dont have a solution for a different working invincibility other than the ones already present, but I would really like LD to not be a copied ability.

    All of that being said, my overall opinion on your fix is divided. It's weird, because despite almost all changes being good, I feel that all of them put together would lead to a very simple (and by extension a boring) job to play. Old SMN was clunky and weird sometimes, but at least it kept you on your toes. New SMN is a busy class, button wise, but empty. Dont want to denigrate summoner mains - its my fav job after DRK - but now its 'monkey see button light up. monkey press button.' and all we have to worry about is where we stand in fights. SMN is a very good example of overoptimization and simplification leading to a good spec, but unchallenging to play. I wouldnt like to see DRK end up in the same spot.
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  2. #2
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,874
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by C0ATL View Post
    All of that being said, my overall opinion on your fix is divided. It's weird, because despite almost all changes being good, I feel that all of them put together would lead to a very simple (and by extension a boring) job to play. Old SMN was clunky and weird sometimes, but at least it kept you on your toes. New SMN is a busy class, button wise, but empty. Dont want to denigrate summoner mains - its my fav job after DRK - but now its 'monkey see button light up. monkey press button.' and all we have to worry about is where we stand in fights. SMN is a very good example of overoptimization and simplification leading to a good spec, but unchallenging to play. I wouldnt like to see DRK end up in the same spot.
    That's fair, and I'd largely agree, hence the label:
    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    Minimalist Fix (Not particularly satisfying, but far more workable, with the fewest steps and least bloat):
    Removing a dead mechanic doesn't require immediate replacement, either. After all, it's doing literally nothing. We'd have delayed our first higher ppgcd skill to at least the second GCD anyways and it's thereafter damn near impossible to ever drop Darkside. Blood Weapon, moreover, is not a "class mechanic gauge". It's just a free Edge per minute, very finickily provided.

    A more fun fix, however, requires fixing, in part, "what ain't broke" but is instead merely dull and unoriginal, which always ends up both more contentious and gutless when attempted without full awareness of contexts (which then requires a more thorough, identity-driven view of PLD, WAR, and GNB, too, insofar as they could similarly benefit from changes). Such seemed out of scope for a "rework that would require little developer effort", so I put its beginnings in the hidden text block below the 'quick fix and polish' suggestions.
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    Last edited by Shurrikhan; 01-03-2022 at 10:22 PM.

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