Low developer effort rework for the DRK Job

[Shurrikhan]

- Oblation duration decreased from 10 sec to 3 and damage reduction increased increased from 10 to 25%. (save that greedy dps from himself with a quick intervention, then let the healers deal with him. again, you need to time it right or else it's a wasted cd)

Given varying target latency, this should probably be extended to the tank-short-miti standard of 4s. (Iirc, we see 3s literally only on Third Eye, a personal that already feels pretty rough in any sort of lag.) Additionally, saving low-HP targets (the wounded and/or squishies) greatly favors barriers (since they'd take little further damage thereafter) over percentile mitigation. By the time a % actually saves a squishy it's likely to be OP on a tank. (Yes, this is largely just due to tank's passive eHP being too damn high.)

TBN cd is increased to 25 sec but mana cost is removed. (still requires a skill check to use at full potential, because it needs to break for proccing dark arts. cd increased to compensate not requiring MP)

I really don't want to see the job dumbed down and homogenized even further.

Salted Earth triggers the 500 potency attack from the new trait automatically and instantly when you cast it, leaving the aoe dot behind. (potency can be lowered from 500 to 350 to balance the fact that its less effort to use)

Such means we can't use Salted nearer to its cooldown if adds are to spawn within its duration. Given that adds often won't last the full duration of Salted Earth, being able to put it down nearer the CD and then blast later has felt to me like an option worthy of its oGCD taken.

Enhanced Unmend is removed and replaced with Ehanced Soulstealer - when u use the Soulstealer as part of the combo (but only when part of the combo), it reduces cooldown of Abyssal Drain/Carve and Spit by 5/7/10 (?) seconds. (No idea how many seconds to remove from the cooldown would be balanced. There are smarter ppl than me who could figure this out)

This just feels like needless alignment hell for a really wonky increase to potency-per-minute and seems no less like bloat than did Enhanced Unmend.

...It doesn't really even make Skill Speed any more viable (not that you'd want that except at very low ping, given how crowded the burst windows are), since the power of each individual cast isn't, itself, affected by Skill Speed (but is by Det, Crit, and DHit).

[C0ATL]

You make some excellent points. I had not thought the duration through from a latency POV so 4 seconds is better. The % damage reduction being op on tanks due to their HP was something I considered. However, if Oblation gets turned into another shield, it would be like having 3 TBNs. That is the only reason why I left it in my suggestion as a % reduction. A more extreme rework for the ability which could solve this dilemma would be if Oblation can only be cast on a target and never on yourself. I still think the low duration compensates for the flaw of it being % dmg reduction instead of a shield. Tanks by themselves dont really need more mitigation overall and boss mechanics for tanks are calculated for their skill cooldowns, so a DRK would be more inclined to use Oblation for saving others.

I really don't want to see the job dumbed down and homogenized even further.

I dont agree that a change which makes an ability less frustrating to use, but equally complex in its mechanics means dumbing it down. It will be more forgiving for new players on the job, but good players will still want to use it to its max potential - only when it can pop for the free Dark Arts proc. Its mechanics stay the same and the lack of mana cost is balanced by the increased cd.

Such means we can't use Salted nearer to its cooldown if adds are to spawn within its duration. Given that adds often won't last the full duration of Salted Earth, being able to put it down nearer the CD and then blast later has felt to me like an option worthy of its oGCD taken.

Another point that I had not considered. Thinking about it now, though, how often does the situation you describe happen? In my personal experience and from watching other DRK gameplay, I notice that SE is used when the trash/adds are already gathered. Keeping in mind that SE is no longer a ranged ability, but casts at your feet, we cant really use it as a ranged aggro tool upon add spawn. The case you described does exist, no doubt about it, but I think its less common than the alternative.

This just feels like needless alignment hell for a really wonky increase to potency-per-minute and seems no less like bloat than did Enhanced Unmend.

DRK only has the one combo and it occupies a lot of our regular GCD, especially during single target. Soulstealer is used a lot more during a fight than Unmend.
My suggested trait triggers of a commonly used ability and reduces cd for one of our best skills. Unmend has a realistic chance to be used 1-2% of the total fight time (?) and reduces cooldown for an ability already having 2 charges and useless the other 98% of the fight(due to you being next to the target). To put them in the same category of bloat seems unfair.

Thank you again for the constructive reply. Unfortunately, you were the only one who stayed on topic.

Let's keep the discussion going.

[Shurrikhan]

DRK only has the one combo and it occupies a lot of our regular GCD, especially during single target. Soulstealer is used a lot more during a fight than Unmend.

That's irrelevant to what I'm saying, though. Because you have only one combo, any effect that is generated from it that does not reward precise timing will have little (i.e., use Bloodspiller early as not to excessively accelerate AD/C&S CDR) to no real (gameplay) interaction. All an Abyssal-Drain CD reduction attached to Soul Eater would do is cause you to feel further penalized for having any downtime (since your portion of uptime-dependent ppm increases), but in a way more annoying to calculate, while --far worse-- causing you to feel penalized for having acquired the Blood gauge, since that means fewer Souleater per minute.

If it has no actual effect on gameplay save to worsen your relative potency regenerated between fights/during downtime, make it more difficult to plan CDs, and to later penalize you for gaining new skills... that's bloat at best.

CDR should only be used when (1) the job needs a lower portion of downtime generation (i.e., because the job already has too much potency owed to purely normal-time-based CDs) and --more importantly-- (2) it is manageable, and (3) its effects are satisfying. (WAR at least has the latter two, for instance, attached to Enhanced Infuriate, though the gameplay effects were more noticeable when Infuriate only had a single charge.)

Another point that I had not considered. Thinking about it now, though, how often does the situation you describe happen? In my personal experience and from watching other DRK gameplay, I notice that SE is used when the trash/adds are already gathered. Keeping in mind that SE is no longer a ranged ability, but casts at your feet, we cant really use it as a ranged aggro tool upon add spawn. The case you described does exist, no doubt about it, but I think its less common than the alternative.

Not often, but if we remove even the least expensive (here, only an additional .67 apm required, not even an extra button) nuances, we've only ourselves to blame when content is designed increasing towards those less nuance-capable kits.

I'd argue also, though, that Salted Earth should be allowed to cast anywhere (within 25 yalms), as before. Mods have already found ways to allow for perfectly smooth, perfectly responsive (and queueable) ground-targeting for M&KB and nearly the same (through target-snapping before placement) for controller -- much the same as has been requested for the default game since ARR (see early comments on Shadowflare, Fiery Arrow, Sacred Soil, etc.). It's absurd to remove a noticeable degree of control just because they can't be bothered to fix targeting systems that deserve fixes for more than just the one ability.

[C0ATL]

All an Abyssal-Drain CD reduction attached to Soul Eater would do is cause you to feel further penalized for having any downtime (since your portion of uptime-dependent ppm increases), but in a way more annoying to calculate, while --far worse-- causing you to feel penalized for having acquired the Blood gauge, since that means fewer Souleater per minute. If it has no actual effect on gameplay save to worsen your relative potency regenerated between fights/during downtime, make it more difficult to plan CDs, and to later penalize you for gaining new skills... that's bloat at best.

Carve and Spit and Abyssal Drain share a cooldown in EW. You'll never use Abyssal Drain in a boss fight anymore. They are also both OGCDs, so your point of the rotation being harmed falls flat. The same goes for the part where it worsens your relative potency, since CaS is quite a powerful attack that also returns mana. (more edge of shadow in the long run). If your argument for why its not a good trait is that people will feel bad for not using Soulstealer as much as possible to get those ppms because Bloodspiller will take up some GCDs, then its a bad argument. By that logic, my SMN Ruin should never get any traits that upgrade its damage because I dont cast it on every available GCD. Nor should any trait that upgrade other jobs' similar abilities.

CDR should only be used when (1) the job needs a lower portion of downtime generation (i.e., because the job already has too much potency owed to purely normal-time-based CDs) and --more importantly-- (2) it is manageable, and (3) its effects are satisfying.

(1) Keep in mind that when I proposed the trait, it was with all the other chances taking place, meaning less button bloat over the current version. An extra CaS every now and again can easily fit in that scenario.
(2) I say again, it is an OGCD.
(3) 510 potency attack + MP gain feels pretty satisfying to me

I understand where you are coming from...basically wanting for that perfect ability/trait which fits in the rotation seamlessly with no 'feelsbad' like your Bloodspiller example. I dont have that for you - certainly not in a low effort rework proposal. Until that trait comes, I'd still take what I suggested over something utterly useless like Enhanced Unmend any day.

With the last part of your reply, I agree. I've always been an advocate for more options and flexibility in spells - SE being ranged is no exception (especially given the improvements they made to the ground targeting system in EW)

[Shurrikhan]

Carve and Spit and Abyssal Drain share a cooldown in EW.

I said "Abyssal" only as shorthand for "the cooldown shared by Abyssal Drain and Carve and Split." Note that I included both earlier.

(1) Keep in mind that when I proposed the trait, it was with all the other chances taking place, meaning less button bloat over the current version. An extra CaS every now and again can easily fit in that scenario.

The extra C&S per minute makes the job need its downtime generation curtailed?

(2) I say again, it is an OGCD.

That has no impact on managing the cooldown reduction per action. Management refers to having something to do in order to optimize the cooldown reduction afforded. Here, the most management to be done would be to save a Blood spender that'd need to be spent anyways before the Trick Attack window for if/when you have fewer seconds left on AD/C&S's recast time than the amount of seconds by which Souleater trim's their cooldown.

(3) 510 potency attack + MP gain feels pretty satisfying to me

You're describing C&S, but what you've suggested isn't a cooldown reduction to C&S so much as simply a Souleater buff. If you just want more C&S, and do not want necessarily to make DRK more uptime-dependent (i.e., to reduce its downtime generation) then, again, just reduce the cooldown on C&S instead of buffing Souleater to make DRK more uptime-dependent.

By all means, give us a greater frequency with our oGCD attacks that aren't simply Edge/Flood, but how you do so --while subtler-- has an effect, too.

[Snae_Ling]

First of all, I'm not being rude, I'm being HONEST.
Just look at what they did to other jobs and what DRK has, if "low effort" is not appropriate, I would say 6.0 DRK is very disappointing.
Are these changes and new things expansion worthy? No.
Did they try to make DRK better? No.
I don't want this quality of change to happen again in 7.0, so I say they did a bad job on DRK. It is true. That is the honest I can give. I cannot appreciate their efforts. I don't expect that SMN-level kind of rework, but this is too far below average. If they really play DRK, they will know salted earth had more flexibility before, they will know blood weapon needs stacks, they will know living dead is the worst invul, etc. but they just... don't know.
I wish I don't have to type all these, just give me a rating system I will rate 1 star on DRK so I don't have to be "rude"

[Danelo]

If they really play DRK, they will know salted earth had more flexibility before, they will know blood weapon needs stacks, they will know living dead is the worst invul, etc. but they just... don't know

That’s just it. They don’t play DRK. If they did, they would know better. They have no direction for the job.

[Mekhana]

OP is just saying what everyone what half a brain is thinking. I love the game but the way this keeps going. Things need to change.

They keep us in the dark until the last very moment and things end up badly (lets be real here they almost always have been since SB) we gotta wait months for a fix that might not even come. Meanwhile, everyone else is high on the "they will rework it in the next expansion don't worry" juice.

I mean, even if they up doing it doesn't mean its going to be good or substantial. It wouldn't surprise me if they thought more plunges and lasers was a rework.

[Mekhana]

DRK this expansion is like that gif of Homer tapping a computer from the couch with a broomstick while the kids stare in awe/despair outside.

"What does your dad do?"

"He's the DRK job designer."

"That took a whole expansion."

[RefundEndwalker]

You can tell these hacks didn't have any plan to make things better when they stealth nerfed Living Shadow's potency for the SOLE PURPOSE of putting it back to its original potency 8 levels later, and pretend it's new. It's like if your dad took your playstation out of your room, boxed it and gave it to you as a christmas present a year later. It's either maliciousness or incompetence, and either option should be met with scorn, not the praise that's being dumped on it by the zealous idiots who pretend Square can do no wrong.