Dark Knight Megathread

[Kalaam]

Just remove TBN already and redesign DRK in another way, i wouldn't mind losing this skill to get a full coherent kit again

[Shurrikhan]

Some have said it would be too powerful to up oblation to 15-20% dr with a regen so I propose it replace dark mind entirely. It may be an unpopular opinion but dark mind needs to die a gruesome death. It’s a relic from a time when sqex was supposed to have learned it’s lesson with pld only being able to block physical damage.

It was decent because of it strength when it was 30% magic resistance in hw. But it was ridiculous when it was nerfed in sb for no reason; and then there was dadm…. Damage specific mitigations are crap in concept. Their dr values have to be incredibly powerful to be viable and often leave the kit with a hole bcs devs view it as just another defense cd when they are niche at best and don’t add depth. In reality it is just another button to press since most players rarely can point to a time that it saved them from certain death.

Honestly, I wouldn't hate Dark Mind if it was again paired alongside Dark Dance (increased parry and dodge chance), with a shared recast between them. I'd consider it a bit bloated, but not terrible. I'd also not mind it turning into just a general damage CD or getting the Camouflage treatment.

However, I doubt you will ever see it empower Oblation, since TBN is already both the equivalent of, say, Heart of Stone/Corundum, Shelltron OR Intervention, or Bloodwhetting OR Nascent Flash, with Oblation then acting as TBN's lv82 trait. Dark Mind holds roughly the same place as Camouflage (mostly physical), Thrill of Battle (either), and Paladin's block (which now also blocks magic). None of those can be cast on allies.

Just remove TBN already and redesign DRK in another way, i wouldn't mind losing this skill to get a full coherent kit again

This, too, I wouldn't mind, but what do we replace it with? TBN is at least more interesting than any other extant defensive (just due to its lower cooldown being constrained by opportunities to actually break it). Any spitballs?

[WhyAmIHere]

Just remove TBN already and redesign DRK in another way, i wouldn't mind losing this skill to get a full coherent kit again

they cant / wont.

[Kalaam]

I kind of liked using blind/dodge/parry but since those aren't doable anymore...
Though we could still put a blind on mobs in dungeons and raid adds etc, that'd still be fun. But go against wanting TBN to break

[Shurrikhan]

I kind of liked using blind/dodge/parry but since those aren't doable anymore...

Tbf, that'd probably take a rehaul of the game's evasion and DR systems. Not that such hasn't been suggested already since ARR.

Though we could still put a blind on mobs in dungeons and raid adds etc, that'd still be fun. But go against wanting TBN to break

Personally, I don't necessarily find an anti-synergy to be any less interesting than a synergy.

Wanting a cooldown's duration to expire before your next TBN comes up is, in itself, a further consideration that other tanks don't have beyond basic issues of multiplicity (stacked CDs have additive gains to eHP but multiplicative and therefore wasteful gains to heal-efficiency on you). Such is, therefore, unique gameplay, even if not the very most exciting sort.

The same could be said for HW DRK and the anti-synergy of DA-DD and Low Blow/Reprisal, since you couldn't both dodge and parry and you needed parry procs for LBlow/Rep. When you DA-DDed, you were going for full personal defense, less utility. And that's fine, so long as the job is balanced mindful of those anti-synergies.

Here's a real knife's-edge hypothetical: Imagine if TBN counterattacked, a la Dreadspikes, while active. At that point, you'd want to mitigate TBN so it breaks as late as possible for more free damage... without pushing it for so long that it doesn't break. That level of risk might not seem commensurate to its reward under the present design (likely preferring that TBN instead give back a portion of MP equal half its % of shield consumed, or the like, if it doesn't fully break), but that's just food for thought.

We're discussing the overall design of the job though, obviously TBN would have to be replaced.

But yeah, having a choice of "do I use TBN and try to manage it to get hit just enough" or "do I play safe and blind enemies to reduce damage more" can be interresting.

I think removing TBN would be more a stylistic preference than anything "obvious", but sure. On the latter note, though, just keep in mind reactions to having two competing tools for doing the same thing. If they can be layered skillfully and choicefully ("I'm going to try to have my increased dodge chance [enemy miss chance] last for just long enough to deal with this special hit, and I'll have TBN ready to bust if it does hit me, before the next two seconds' worth of pack autos can finish me off, since that'll still be enough to break it," etc.), then it shouldn't be accused of bloat, but otherwise it may seem wasteful and unpolished.

[Sacrilegion]

I meant they're paired, the Healer comp destroys Ast/Whm, there's nothing damaging enough to warrant them, except Whm having MP issues.



About this though, Drk had a DPS issue in SB, but it's pick rate pretty shot up for UCOB.

SHBs, Dark Knight had been a meta tank since the release with Gunbreaker, it was tough for Paladin to beat Dark Knight because of "TBN" alone, 25% HP barrier is ultra strong in raid content, Paladin only started making it's place over Dark Knight in Eden Promise, but still 1-2 fights Dark Knight had an advantage in Promise.

Cool, all because of one skill and that alone. If you remove TBN, DRK is objectively useless as a tank. You can easily fix dps issues with potency increases, can't fix a half baked and terrible kit with living shadow (which uses up a huge chunk of it duration just standing there). SE refuses to change it because people like you defend lazy garbage such as this. It needs to be remodeled not given bandaids and kisses.

[Kalaam]

We're discussing the overall design of the job though, obviously TBN would have to be replaced.

But yeah, having a choice of "do I use TBN and try to manage it to get hit just enough" or "do I play safe and blind ennemies to reduce damage more" can be interresting.

[Undeadfire]

Precisely why asking for more buffs is an issue for Dark Knight, is because of TBN. TBN maybe trash in Dungeons, as I repeat again, high content this ability is super powerful and strong barriers is a dominant force for mitigation, vs reduction mitigation. TBN alone can soak a tank buster by it's self, specially now Oblation exist. Removing TBN, Oblation obtaining buffs, Dark Mind changed to all reduction to counter part HoC/NF/Intervention would actually solve one of the problems in balancing.

No TBN
Oblation 15% Reduction, 250 Potency Regen, 2 charges, 8 seconds Duration, 12s Regen, 60 seconds cooldown, can use on anyone.
Dark Mind 15% Reduction (Physical/Magic), 15 seconds duration, 90s cooldown.

Can at least survive all content than specifics, maybe a clone sadly since I can't come up with much, Barriers are a dangerous game.

[Archwizard]

Removing TBN, Oblation obtaining buffs, Dark Mind changed to all reduction to counter part HoC/NF/Intervention would actually solve one of the problems in balancing.

Said like "removing TBN" doesn't also mean yet another rework to the Dark Arts mechanic, on top of Oblation having to be dropped in level to make up for the loss of TBN... and DRK being the only job without a 25s CD which would only exacerbate DRK's issues in dungeons. And that Oblation as you've described it would be a clone of Holy Sheltron.

Also, you're comparing Dark Mind - a skill that can only be used by and on the DRK - to Intervention and NF...?

[Marxam]

TBN in concept is great. A shield where you take 0 damage while it is active is good in any content. The problem is that it's either viable in single targets or ineffective in dungeon pulls. It's design is antiquated as well. It's the only tank cd, exception of LD, that actively punishes you for using it wrong while the other tank cd equivalents can be used almost anytime.

I think TBN should be on 2 charges. That way its more easily accessible. Ultimately TBN is the sole reason why DRK no longer has self sustain. If you take 0 damage then why would you need to heal?
Outside of that I think the change to SAD was unwarranted with the new aoe cursor limit option they added. It just feels more restrictive now as I have to physically move to the enemies to place an aoe.

Like I said, the bare minimum I expect to read in the patch notes this Tuesday is:

-TBN duration increased to 8 seconds