Dark Knight Megathread

[Evos]

@keagian
I agree, and the reason for me is simple. We have scholar in a dungeon with not co-healer...do you leave because "omg they have shields" and shields are not good.

No you stay and in fact if you use a regen on the Dark Knight while they are in TBN or using shields, they basically heal while negating damage. It's a win win. In addition they still have all the basic defense tools as the other tanks. Rampart and oblation is probably sufficient for alot of things and it has 2 charges.

I'm going to go out on a limb (sarcasm) and day Drk and Gnb are your shield tanks hence, they are not bad at sustain, but are negating damage throughout a fight. If any regen is out from any source then your fine. Plus we still have soul eater being grudgingly used repeatedly.

All we need more of is increased healing potency for abyssal drain to be relevant. If CnS is the damage CD make abyssal the healing CD and skew it as lower damage but higher heal. And I would prefer the mp gain to remain on both but higher on abyssal. If however this change was to reduce ogcd burden, please revert it lol and find another way.

I don't want what the other tanks have all the time. I think that's how we go here in the first place.

[Absimiliard]

GNB isn't bad at sustain. DRK very much is. They've got strong mitigation tools, but they very much do need to be babysat by healers pretty much constantly during wall to wall pulling and boss fights with hard-hitting mechanics. The trade off is high damage.

At any rate, it's unlikely anything will change significantly before the end of Endwalker. SE has clung so steadfastly to their current iteration of DRK that one might be forgiven if they were as impressed by it as they are confused or dismayed. I would love to know why they're so adamant about it, though.

[Marxam]

GNB isn't bad at sustain. DRK very much is. They've got strong mitigation tools, but they very much do need to be babysat by healers pretty much constantly during wall to wall pulling and boss fights with hard-hitting mechanics. The trade off is high damage.

At any rate, it's unlikely anything will change significantly before the end of Endwalker. SE has clung so steadfastly to their current iteration of DRK that one might be forgiven if they were as impressed by it as they are confused or dismayed. I would love to know why they're so adamant about it, though.

at the very least I would hope the increase TBN from 7 secs to 8 seconds so it matches the other tanks.

[WhyAmIHere]

GNB isn't bad at sustain. DRK very much is. They've got strong mitigation tools, but they very much do need to be babysat by healers pretty much constantly during wall to wall pulling and boss fights with hard-hitting mechanics. The trade off is high damage.

At any rate, it's unlikely anything will change significantly before the end of Endwalker. SE has clung so steadfastly to their current iteration of DRK that one might be forgiven if they were as impressed by it as they are confused or dismayed. I would love to know why they're so adamant about it, though.

hey uh... bud?

[Dracosavarian]

hey uh... bud?

I’d prefer to see a longer range of data vs the current two weeks since early access, when everyone is still adapting to changes and dealing with their kit changes.

A down the road sample of data, excluding say, the 1st month of Endwalker release, is likely to be more accurate, I feel.

[WhyAmIHere]

I’d prefer to see a longer range of data vs the current two weeks since early access, when everyone is still adapting to changes and dealing with their kit changes.

A down the road sample of data, excluding say, the 1st month of Endwalker release, is likely to be more accurate, I feel.

my point is this: Holy Shelltron, Clemency, Equilibrium, Bloodwhetting / Nascent Flash, Thrill of Battle: All of this I'd argue are more potent heals than Heart of Corundum and Aurora, and certainly more than soul eater on a single hit / abyssal drain. This is of course ignoring soul eater over time, since *what else are you doing on DRK?*

Sure once the players are more at ease and familiar with their jobs, these numbers are more than likely to change. But I dont see the general trend of PLD/WAR having more sustain than GNB/DRK changing without SE tweaking potencies.

[Dracosavarian]

my point is this: Holy Shelltron, Clemency, Equilibrium, Bloodwhetting / Nascent Flash, Thrill of Battle: All of this I'd argue are more potent heals than Heart of Corundum and Aurora, and certainly more than soul eater on a single hit / abyssal drain. This is of course ignoring soul eater over time, since *what else are you doing on DRK?*

Sure once the players are more at ease and familiar with their jobs, these numbers are more than likely to change. But I dont see the general trend of PLD/WAR having more sustain than GNB/DRK changing without SE tweaking potencies.

My issue with the data posted is that at best, it’s unreliable. That is also excluding the factor of having just two weeks of early access with Endwalker and folks adapting to their kit.

If we want true, accurate, measured data, then we need a strict test with controls set in place where the only variable is the jobs themselves. I doubt we will ever get that though.

This is why I dislike when folks throw out mass charts from aggregate data over a wide variety of scenarios and factors with no measure of controls and elimination of variables that would mask the truth of the data one seeks. I honestly feel it obfuscates more than it seeks to illuminate.


All of that having been said thus…

Drk has two sources of Sustain. If single target now, might as well only be one. Souleater. Abyssal Drain is only really good for multiple targets or trying to eke out whatever precious few seconds one has before activating their hated invuln if their healers are down.

Personally, due to HoC, I would consider Gunbreaker to be above Drk in sustain by comparison, even with the above data saying otherwise. Hence, my statement on seeking a sample down the road which might be more accurate.


Food for thought though. This kind of goes alone the lines of what are you saying about having only two tools.

But, how sad is it that if Drk wants to sustain, that in wall to wall pulls, they have to rely on Souleater and single target combo chains, as their strongest source of it to help offset healer stress, whereas in comparison with the other tanks, that isn’t even necessary on their end so much.

[Dingodrole]

Oblation should not be a 10%, in it's current state, it's too weak to even matters. Same as when TBN during SB, when used on an other target : you always used it on someone close to die, but 90% of the time, it wouldn't make a difference.

Either buff oblation, to a 15%, to actually make it half decent to use ( because in the current state, i just tend to forget this thing exists : already too busy spamming my oGCD ), OR completly change what it does.

I could see oblation as being the second face of Dark Arts back then : adding effect on already existing tool.

Oblation / LD = halfen the recquired healing
Oblation / TBN = Guarentees the shield to break no matter what and give you a regen
Oblation / Dark mind = etc etc etc bla bla smth smth

You get the idea. Maybe some of the old school DRK players would be pleased with something like that, while feeling less insulted by how oblation feels weak. Don't get me wrong, the tool is fun to use, but too weak to matter.

I feel like they designed that tool as being an " oh shit " panic button you press, like for example as soon as you see a TB cast. Problem is, it's the complete opposite that happens : why would i use Oblation, a 10 mitig, with TBN, while i can use a 20% or 30% ? Literally makes no sense nor logic.
The tool is great when you already know in advance what's going to be thrown at you, NOT when it is unexpected

[Crossu]

Hi just posting my three suggestions in order of urgency:

• -Remove the Unmend Trait, no one asked for it.
• -Change Blood Weapon if the effect was the same as Delirium it would be so much nicer to use than having to greed for those 5 gcds.
• -if DRK really needed a new trait just add Lifesteal to Blood Gauge moves or if you are crazy enough stacks to Abyssal Drain/Carve and Spit (for extra sustain in trash pulls).

[Derio]

Remove the Unmend Trait.

Add Blackest Blood trait: All Blood Gauge actions heal for X% of damage done.

However mentioned above is most likely not to happen as it takes too much effort to balance in one patch so they will probably just add a small burst heal to oblation and be like here we gave you something.