Parsing unfair but okay?

[HyoMinPark]

That you know of. If you have statistics and logistics on what Square Enix has, and has not enforced in regards to their Terms of Service, I’m open to hearing it.

Statistics, of course not. But it’s fairly common knowledge that a lot of the crafting/gathering and PvP bots continue to go unpunished in this game.

[Dracosavarian]

Statistics, of course not. But it’s fairly common knowledge that a lot of the crafting/gathering and PvP bots continue to go unpunished in this game.

Perception is not often the reality of the situation as a whole. It is only one side of the coin, seen from an external viewpoint and, demonstrably in this case, the one that is the least informed in regards to the question at hand.

[HyoMinPark]

Perception is not often the reality of the situation as a whole. It is only one side of the coin, seen from an external viewpoint and, demonstrably in this case, the one that is the least informed in regards to the question at hand.

There is a ring of crafting and gathering bots on my server that have been reported multiple times since Stormblood—and nothing has ever been done about them. They have continued to happily bot away unabated. The only comeuppance one got wasn’t even from SE but from someone hacking their account, deleting their FC, and spending all their gil. Pardon if I don’t have the most favorable view of the enforcement of the ToS with regards to this.

That said, ToS or not, it’s common knowledge that parsers are don’t ask, don’t tell. Multiple big name streamers openly display them on their Twitch channels, and they aren’t reported or banned for them. Yoshida knows that parsers keep the raids relevant beyond getting gear, so he’s not going to advocate massive enforcement of banning players that use them. It’s truly astounding the number of people in this thread that advocate blindly reporting people out of nothing but pure vindictiveness, and then act as if they are the righteous ones in this situation. GCBTW, indeed.

[Dracosavarian]

There is a ring of crafting and gathering bots on my server that have been reported multiple times since Stormblood—and nothing has ever been done about them. They have continued to happily bot away unabated. The only comeuppance one got wasn’t even from SE but from someone hacking their account, deleting their FC, and spending all their gil. Pardon if I don’t have the most favorable view of the enforcement of the ToS with regards to this.

That said, ToS or not, it’s common knowledge that parsers are don’t ask, don’t tell. Multiple big name streamers openly display them on their Twitch channels, and they aren’t reported or banned for them. Yoshida knows that parsers keep the raids relevant beyond getting gear, so he’s not going to advocate massive enforcement of banning players that use them. It’s truly astounding the number of people in this thread that advocate blindly reporting people out of nothing but pure vindictiveness, and then act as if they are the righteous ones in this situation. GCBTW, indeed.

Be that as it may, and I do sympathize with your frustration as RMT and Botters are the scum of the earth, and were a particularly vexing pain point for me mining Darksteel ore in the Gusgen Mines in FFXI back in the day…

The fact that others are breaking the Terms of Service does not suddenly give carte blanche for one to do the same.

[Anonicat]

There is a ring of crafting and gathering bots on my server that have been reported multiple times since Stormblood—and nothing has ever been done about them. They have continued to happily bot away unabated. The only comeuppance one got wasn’t even from SE but from someone hacking their account, deleting their FC, and spending all their gil. Pardon if I don’t have the most favorable view of the enforcement of the ToS with regards to this.

That said, ToS or not, it’s common knowledge that parsers are don’t ask, don’t tell. Multiple big name streamers openly display them on their Twitch channels, and they aren’t reported or banned for them. Yoshida knows that parsers keep the raids relevant beyond getting gear, so he’s not going to advocate massive enforcement of banning players that use them. It’s truly astounding the number of people in this thread that advocate blindly reporting people out of nothing but pure vindictiveness, and then act as if they are the righteous ones in this situation. GCBTW, indeed.

You are 100% right.

[Sylve]

Statistics, of course not. But it’s fairly common knowledge that a lot of the crafting/gathering and PvP bots continue to go unpunished in this game.

Bot ban waves happen irregularly because if SE were to ban a bot the instant it gets discovered, the bot makers just change it immediately and create a new bot account.
By allowing them to run for some time and the banning in huge irregular waves, it makes it a bit harder for them to change what got them caught.
It also concentrates illicit material in comparatively fewer bots.

There's also some bots that get put on watchlists so they can trace the legit account that is the source player for the bot accounts.

If it helps any, think of it more like drug busting.
Sure, removing the dealer as soon as he appears on the street is good for the community. But unless they take down the supplier, a new dealer will pop up every day.
So they watch the dealers to catch the suppliers.

[HyoMinPark]

Bot ban waves happen irregularly because if SE were to ban a bot the instant it gets discovered, the bot makers just change it immediately and create a new bot account.
By allowing them to run for some time and the banning in huge irregular waves, it makes it a bit harder for them to change what got them caught.
It also concentrates illicit material in comparatively fewer bots.

There's also some bots that get put on watchlists so they can trace the legit account that is the source player for the bot accounts.

If it helps any, think of it more like drug busting.
Sure, removing the dealer as soon as he appears on the street is good for the community. But unless they take down the supplier, a new dealer will pop up every day.
So they watch the dealers to catch the suppliers.

Yeah, I don’t think that’s how things work in this game. If so, well watching this ring of bots for 4+ years is certainly quite generous of the STF.

Be that as it may, and I do sympathize with your frustration as RMT and Botters are the scum of the earth, and were a particularly vexing pain point for me mining Darksteel ore in the Gusgen Mines in FFXI back in the day…

The fact that others are breaking the Terms of Service does not suddenly give carte blanche for one to do the same.

The developers aren’t enforcing the ToS when it comes to parsers because of the reasons I stated above—they know that if they suddenly start taking action, Savage dies. There’s no point in continuing to run it outside of getting gear. The competitive raid scene is built upon chasing leaderboards, and that scene keeps the content alive. As long as the parsers aren’t used to harass, SE will do nothing about them. When they are used to harass, the person is punished under the harassment clause—not the third-party software clause. See: Arthars.

[Dracosavarian]

Yeah, I don’t think that’s how things work in this game. If so, well watching this ring of bots for 4+ years is certainly quite generous of the STF.



The developers aren’t enforcing the ToS when it comes to parsers because of the reasons I stated above—they know that if they suddenly start taking action, Savage dies. There’s no point in continuing to run it outside of getting gear. The competitive raid scene is built upon chasing leaderboards, and that scene keeps the content alive. As long as the parsers aren’t used to harass, SE will do nothing about them. When they are used to harass, the person is punished under the harassment clause—not the third-party software clause. See: Arthars.

I’m aware of what happened with Arthars. I’m also aware of what happened with others as well. SE has also said that if they so choose, they can suddenly start banning people left and right for it. This has been openly stated.

All of the arguments for and against, none of that changes the fact that it is against the Terms of Service.

I don’t use parsers. I don’t need to, nor do I have a desire to. If I wish to test myself, I have other methods of doing so that don’t break the Terms of Service.

No matter how much people try to hand wave that it is “ OK “ because SE does not currently enforce it according to their argument, will not change the fact that it is still against the TOS.

In essence, SE has not said it is ok. Rather, they have stated openly it is against TOS and that any use of such tools is at the users own risk.

[Anonicat]

People try to wield the ToS, as if they have power. Insecure folks indeed. It baffles me. Just let people play the game. And as to the whole Botting thing. Well Square Enix has done a great job of doing nothing. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if those monthly, Oh we banned X amount of accounts is just for show, and pure BS. And on another term. Y'all know what makes bots easier to program. A heavily scripted game... and macro's..... lmao..

[Saraide]

People try to wield the ToS, as if they have power. Insecure folks indeed. It baffles me. Just let people play the game. And as to the whole Botting thing. Well Square Enix has done a great job of doing nothing. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if those monthly, Oh we banned X amount of accounts is just for show, and pure BS. And on another term. Y'all know what makes bots easier to program. A heavily scripted game... and macro's..... lmao..

The RMT shout bots in the big cities are pretty easy to ban but that's also completely without consequence. The unfortunate truth is that a huge amount of players are not negatively impacted by crafting and gathering bots as they will push prices on many things down in an effort to undercut and push out legit competition.