Current EX trial completed without Healers

[ASkellington]

Can you elaborate on resource and cooldown management?

I agree on the healing part, but I don't understand the part of resources and cooldowns in healer role.

Don't they already have plenty of cooldowns and their own resource systems?

Not with how this game is played no. Resource management typically means mana. On most healers mana is a joke. AST is especially bad for this as I have personally used just Astrodyne to regain it off of a death and the same skill for multiple rezzes. Mana is supposed to be important as it means the higher cost spells mean they heal more, but we cannot spam them (think Cure 3 if it wasn't limited to a radius).

Now, you can get by with having so many oGCDs as we have with 0 mana cost IF

They had sufficient CDs tied with them. I think I have a post of mine complaining about why Lady of Crowns sucks for me - it is essentially a 60s helios... when I have 3-4 other 60s CDs. Like Exaltation is up every 60s for a tank buster, every Xs I have an aoe for a raid wide. To the point where I can ignore part of my kit. By 90 I should be making the most of my kit. In stead I ignore CI because Exalt is up 100% of the time and unless I'm shielding a tank/dps/my dumb self from a hit they may not survive without it, I don't use it. Collective Unconciousness? WHO? For a good part of Shb I didn't even need it! Most damage that it would have mitigated either ES or Celestial covers it. Horoscope? Pretty much the same, OR I replaces Celestial with it if I know the fight well enough.

Neutral Sect? In Shb as a new healer I thought it was kinda meh. I usually had a SCH cohealer. Unless we wanted to be extra safe the shielding felt worthless when my regens were strong enough to cover the damage.

As for job gauges... Eh not a good idea of a resource system atm. AST's Astrodyne is lackluster even at 3 seals. Cards, both of them, just keep me busy but not in a way I feel fulfilled.

SCH's Fae Gauge... Not hard to manage. Actually I have problems keeping it from being full when I don't need the healing outside of pack mobs (perhaps that's changed with this expansion, but I can't do SCH)

SGE? I feel like I need to dump to regain mana and I haven't played it enough to optimize Adderssting (like SCH its not my kind of healer, I hate shielding)

WHM's lilies? Sure if they did more with it maybe. Like SGE I feel like I'm dumping for no reason.

To me they feel disconnected from the healers' kit and not a lot to manage. Just... busy work.

Edit: I should add that the gauges (mainly lillies/addersgall/aetherflow/fae gauge) feel more like things I am forced to use to not waste them otherwise they fill up and unlike aetherflow which has a dumb like ED, the others don't and I'm left going... "well free healing... that I don't need?"

[Rilifane]

So what I'm seeing here, are two main camps of healers. One camp wants there to be more healing required so they spend more time thinking about healing and less time about DPSing. The other wants more involved DPS rotations, so that when there is healing downtime it's less dull then it is currently.

Sadly, the trend has been to make both camps unhappy with dreadfully low healing requirements and painful 2 button dps spam.

The funny thing is that camp "Green DPS" does want higher healing requirements. Much higher healer healing requirements. Probably even more than people that define themselves as "pure healers".
We've just given up on ever getting healing requirements high enough to keep us on our toes because we know it would either affect the skill floor across the board or result in a steep learning curve from dungeons to ex to savage to ultimate if we keep DF content really simpel as it is now, so we looked for alternatives: involved healer dps.
And the alternative is probably the much better and safer approach for SE because it wouldn't affect the skill floor and learning healers. The one thing fresh ASTs with zero experience in healing get told is "ignore cards until you're comfortable with healing".
The player base in general is very accepting of people ignoring parts of their toolkit for the time being for the sake of better learning their primary role.

[AFuzzyMu11in]

The funny thing is that camp "Green DPS" does want higher healing requirements. Much higher healer healing requirements. Probably even more than people that define themselves as "pure healers".
We've just given up on ever getting healing requirements high enough to keep us on our toes because we know it would either affect the skill floor across the board or result in a steep learning curve from dungeons to ex to savage to ultimate if we keep DF content really simpel as it is now, so we looked for alternatives: involved healer dps.
And the alternative is probably the much better and safer approach for SE because it wouldn't affect the skill floor and learning healers. The one thing fresh ASTs with zero experience in healing get told is "ignore cards until you're comfortable with healing".
The player base in general is very accepting of people ignoring parts of their toolkit for the time being for the sake of better learning their primary role.

Yeah honestly I really don’t think people realize how bad most of the players in this game is. I go into content expecting the worse, it’s only until I see everyone vibing no random deaths etc that I realize we are all “high elo” in that moment and can actually play that specific instance of content well. Case in point circle 2. Wiped multiple times with one group till VA, did it second time new group instant cleared. Zero deaths

[Silver-Strider]

Yeah honestly I really don’t think people realize how bad most of the players in this game is. I go into content expecting the worse, it’s only until I see everyone vibing no random deaths etc that I realize we are all “high elo” in that moment and can actually play that specific instance of content well. Case in point circle 2. Wiped multiple times with one group till VA, did it second time new group instant cleared. Zero deaths

They're already bad now. Giving them more DPS buttons isn't going to make them worse.

[Deceptus]

They're already bad now. Giving them more DPS buttons isn't going to make them worse.

Yep this is pretty much the counter argument.

Pure healers don't use damage buttons as it is so adding more literally doesn't affect them.

It only bores / pisses off the other section of the healers.

[Valmaxian]

They're already bad now. Giving them more DPS buttons isn't going to make them worse.

Exactly. Adding more damage options/creating more interesting damage rotations for healers does not force players to use them. If you’re a player who doesn’t want that, don’t press those buttons and just heal. For the rest of us, it keeps us engaged. It seems pretty simple to me.

[ASkellington]

Yep this is pretty much the counter argument.

Pure healers don't use damage buttons as it is so adding more literally doesn't affect them.

It only bores / pisses off the other section of the healers.

And before we cycle back to "it pressures newer healers into doing dps" and "higher skilled people will yell at them to be pressing more buttons" again

If a new or less skilled healer is healing more than dpsing because they cannot handle the extra dps yet, no one is going to berate them. It isn't as if they're standing around doing nothing but casting cure 1. They're obviously trying to dps and heal at the same time. As an AST I have yet to be called out for prioritizing healing over dpsing or even my own cards. This is an extremely minor issue and if anyone is being harassed report them. Its that simple.

[RinaShinomiya]

Exactly. Adding more damage options/creating more interesting damage rotations for healers does not force players to use them. If you’re a player who doesn’t want that, don’t press those buttons and just heal. For the rest of us, it keeps us engaged. It seems pretty simple to me.

To play the devils advocate a little here. If they gave us a proper DPS rotation they would spread the DPS of our 1 button nuke across those new skills and a poor performing healer that relied on their rotation being 1 button so that they can have a "decent enough" DPS ratio while healing will fall off if they ignore those new DPS buttons. I think that's the crux of the Argument of YoshiP on why they aren't giving healers more DPS buttons, even if it's a flawed one because Sage already demonstrates we can have more DPS buttons that neither spread our damage out nor clash against healing, even if the "rotation" aspect is still missing.

The best solution would be ofc to give us a DPS rotation that interacts with out healing kit.
I was a little bit disappointed on Sage that Kardia gives yourself a buff and there is no skill in our toolkit that interacts with that buff like Normal step does on Dancer for example, boosting only the dancer and the dance partner.
On WHM you could for example make Freecure proc off of the DoT or our Nuke and give a Lilly instead of free Cure II. That's probably the quickest and simplest fix you could do to WHM to salvage a utterly pointless trait.
Similarly on AST you could change enhanced Benefic trait to activate from Dot or Nuke and Crit boosts the next CI so that Ast has access to a Mini Crit-Adlo.
I also think that the lily system is good overall because its the same interaction but in reverse, interacting with our DPS kit through healing but they really need to up those numbers on Misery so its not a DPS negative.

The biggest problem i have with the current healing toolkit, considering how little damage we actually receive, is that we have a lot of buttons that we maybe used in level 50 dungeons simply because we don't have access to the good ones yet and in level 90 dungeons they become obsolete. They at least tried to make Eukrasian Diagnosis still relevant in endgame content with Toxicon but Toxicon is just not worth the effort most of the time and i really hope they improve on it. But this is less of a issue on SGE than on AST for example because the "GCD healing bloat" only eats up 2 hotbar slots so there is still plenty of room for other stuff.

[Deceptus]

And before we cycle back to "it pressures newer healers into doing dps" and "higher skilled people will yell at them to be pressing more buttons" again

If a new or less skilled healer is healing more than dpsing because they cannot handle the extra dps yet, no one is going to berate them. It isn't as if they're standing around doing nothing but casting cure 1. They're obviously trying to dps and heal at the same time. As an AST I have yet to be called out for prioritizing healing over dpsing or even my own cards. This is an extremely minor issue and if anyone is being harassed report them. Its that simple.

Hell even at lvl 80-90 if the tank isn't using their CD's properly there are times when I have to go full heal mode. It happens.

[Silver-Strider]

To play the devils advocate a little here. If they gave us a proper DPS rotation they would spread the DPS of our 1 button nuke across those new skills and a poor performing healer that relied on their rotation being 1 button so that they can have a "decent enough" DPS ratio while healing will fall off if they ignore those new DPS buttons. I think that's the crux of the Argument of YoshiP on why they aren't giving healers more DPS buttons, even if it's a flawed one because Sage already demonstrates we can have more DPS buttons that neither spread our damage out nor clash against healing, even if the "rotation" aspect is still missing.

The best solution would be ofc to give us a DPS rotation that interacts with out healing kit.
I was a little bit disappointed on Sage that Kardia gives yourself a buff and there is no skill in our toolkit that interacts with that buff like Normal step does on Dancer for example, boosting only the dancer and the dance partner.
On WHM you could for example make Freecure proc off of the DoT or our Nuke and give a Lilly instead of free Cure II. That's probably the quickest and simplest fix you could do to WHM to salvage a utterly pointless trait.
Similarly on AST you could change enhanced Benefic trait to activate from Dot or Nuke and Crit boosts the next CI so that Ast has access to a Mini Crit-Adlo.
I also think that the lily system is good overall because its the same interaction but in reverse, interacting with our DPS kit through healing but they really need to up those numbers on Misery so its not a DPS negative.

The biggest problem i have with the current healing toolkit, considering how little damage we actually receive, is that we have a lot of buttons that we maybe used in level 50 dungeons simply because we don't have access to the good ones yet and in level 90 dungeons they become obsolete. They at least tried to make Eukrasian Diagnosis still relevant in endgame content with Toxicon but Toxicon is just not worth the effort most of the time and i really hope they improve on it. But this is less of a issue on SGE than on AST for example because the "GCD healing bloat" only eats up 2 hotbar slots so there is still plenty of room for other stuff.

Healers need an overhaul basically.