Current EX trial completed without Healers

[Aword3213]

I don't see how I'd win anyways. What I want SE to fix, is apparently what they don't want: more healing to do and resource and cooldown management. Among a slew of other problems plaguing both healers and tanks (and some dps) in their identity crises.

Can you elaborate on resource and cooldown management?

I agree on the healing part, but I don't understand the part of resources and cooldowns in healer role.

Don't they already have plenty of cooldowns and their own resource systems?

[ASkellington]

Can you elaborate on resource and cooldown management?

I agree on the healing part, but I don't understand the part of resources and cooldowns in healer role.

Don't they already have plenty of cooldowns and their own resource systems?

Not with how this game is played no. Resource management typically means mana. On most healers mana is a joke. AST is especially bad for this as I have personally used just Astrodyne to regain it off of a death and the same skill for multiple rezzes. Mana is supposed to be important as it means the higher cost spells mean they heal more, but we cannot spam them (think Cure 3 if it wasn't limited to a radius).

Now, you can get by with having so many oGCDs as we have with 0 mana cost IF

They had sufficient CDs tied with them. I think I have a post of mine complaining about why Lady of Crowns sucks for me - it is essentially a 60s helios... when I have 3-4 other 60s CDs. Like Exaltation is up every 60s for a tank buster, every Xs I have an aoe for a raid wide. To the point where I can ignore part of my kit. By 90 I should be making the most of my kit. In stead I ignore CI because Exalt is up 100% of the time and unless I'm shielding a tank/dps/my dumb self from a hit they may not survive without it, I don't use it. Collective Unconciousness? WHO? For a good part of Shb I didn't even need it! Most damage that it would have mitigated either ES or Celestial covers it. Horoscope? Pretty much the same, OR I replaces Celestial with it if I know the fight well enough.

Neutral Sect? In Shb as a new healer I thought it was kinda meh. I usually had a SCH cohealer. Unless we wanted to be extra safe the shielding felt worthless when my regens were strong enough to cover the damage.

As for job gauges... Eh not a good idea of a resource system atm. AST's Astrodyne is lackluster even at 3 seals. Cards, both of them, just keep me busy but not in a way I feel fulfilled.

SCH's Fae Gauge... Not hard to manage. Actually I have problems keeping it from being full when I don't need the healing outside of pack mobs (perhaps that's changed with this expansion, but I can't do SCH)

SGE? I feel like I need to dump to regain mana and I haven't played it enough to optimize Adderssting (like SCH its not my kind of healer, I hate shielding)

WHM's lilies? Sure if they did more with it maybe. Like SGE I feel like I'm dumping for no reason.

To me they feel disconnected from the healers' kit and not a lot to manage. Just... busy work.

Edit: I should add that the gauges (mainly lillies/addersgall/aetherflow/fae gauge) feel more like things I am forced to use to not waste them otherwise they fill up and unlike aetherflow which has a dumb like ED, the others don't and I'm left going... "well free healing... that I don't need?"

[Aword3213]

snip

Thanks for your explanation. Your perspective on mana management is fresh to me. I rarely thought about mana in terms of improving healing gameplay, though I often wonders how Piety can be made better.

As for job gauges, I'm not good at offering insight on how it can be improved. The only issue I have right now concerning job gauges is that it's unfair WHM can't have 3 lilies at the start of the fight.

Side note, this isn't how I read it, personally, but it could be inferred that way, yes.

it's such a pessimistic way to look at things to be honest.

Features being removed doesn't mean they should be removed. Healers who perfer old playstyles being aliented doesn't mean they should be alienated.

FFXIV is ultimately a business in gaming industry. It's only natural they want to make it as profitable as possible. Changes were made to make healers more appealing. Their decisions were debatable of courese. They ended up alienating other groups of healers. It just happened, not that they wanted it to happen by design

[ASkellington]

Features being removed doesn't mean they should be removed. Healers who perfer old playstyles being aliented doesn't mean they should be alienated.

FFXIV is ultimately a business in gaming industry. It's only natural they want to make it as profitable as possible. Changes were made to make healers more appealing. Their decisions were debatable of courese. They ended up alienating other groups of healers. It just happened, not that they wanted it to happen by design

They may not have wanted to to happen that way, but it happened nonetheless. Furthermore, it just feels like they don't even care. We have abilities like Living Dead still in the game who's been complained about since its inception by both healers and DRKs. We have unwanted changes across the board for classes (BRD, AST cards, SCH etc) and our answer is "get used to it, its not coming back no matter that we changed it in ways you didn't want it and don't want to go back on the old design with improvements". That is how a lot of people not just healers feel from the devs.

[Doragan]

though I often wonders how Piety can be made better.

To be fair, it was better before. I could see a point getting more MP,especially when Lucid wasn't a thing and we relied on Ranged/CD for MP regen. Now,it barely affects anything. No real point building some piety.
I don't know, if they made Piety to be Healer's Direct Hit equivalent, that would be nice.

It just happened, not that they wanted it to happen by design

I don't know. I think it was a mix of multiple things that happened at once.
There's this obsession to remove player decision making in some sense. SCH using macros to force Embrace? Can't have that. Remove all pet actions. DRK player using /ac <me> to put Salted Earth to the ground rather than do it manually? No, can't have that. Remove it posthaste. Astrologian can draw cards by left clicking them? NO, USE UNDRAW! It's just weird decisions that nobody asked for, and just rob current players of bits and chunks of their gameplay ( well, in SCH's case, almost half of it ).
There's also the slow removal of DoTs since Stormblood. AST had the real first taste of current ShB/EW gameplay - a nuke, a dot, and whatever is going on with the cards. Even at the time, people were complaining about this design because while AST was good, it was pretty boring. Sure, 2 DoTs weren't much to begin with, but it was something to manage, at the very least. What was SE's decision to do next expac? Apply that gameplay on all healers. Aero III was fun. The animation was great, and while we didn't have Bane, it was satisfying to apply on packs in dungeons. Nah, remove that.
Bane? Remove that as well. Pet management ? To the bin. Buffs variety? Cremated. Buff management with Time Dilation, SCH's AoE Esuna, Rouse, Protect, Stoneskin, etc etc? Done. Energy Drain for a month? Gone. SCH was a skill graveyard when ShB started.

And on top of that, there were some kind of promise that we would get harder heal checks coming over, and that never happened either -- granted, Tower of Zot and Holminster were both a bit harder than expected at release, that promptly disappeared.

tl;dr removal of player choice, removal of dots across the whole game, hitting healers the most because they relied on it the most, trying to apply SB AST gameplay to all jobs despite not being fit to, and no change of healing in either dungeons and harder content.

[RinaShinomiya]

To be fair, it was better before. I could see a point getting more MP,especially when Lucid wasn't a thing and we relied on Ranged/CD for MP regen. Now,it barely affects anything. No real point building some piety.
I don't know, if they made Piety to be Healer's Direct Hit equivalent, that would be nice.




I don't know. I think it was a mix of multiple things that happened at once.
There's this obsession to remove player decision making in some sense. SCH using macros to force Embrace? Can't have that. Remove all pet actions. DRK player using /ac <me> to put Salted Earth to the ground rather than do it manually? No, can't have that. Remove it posthaste. Astrologian can draw cards by left clicking them? NO, USE UNDRAW! It's just weird decisions that nobody asked for, and just rob current players of bits and chunks of their gameplay ( well, in SCH's case, almost half of it ).
There's also the slow removal of DoTs since Stormblood. AST had the real first taste of current ShB/EW gameplay - a nuke, a dot, and whatever is going on with the cards. Even at the time, people were complaining about this design because while AST was good, it was pretty boring. Sure, 2 DoTs weren't much to begin with, but it was something to manage, at the very least. What was SE's decision to do next expac? Apply that gameplay on all healers. Aero III was fun. The animation was great, and while we didn't have Bane, it was satisfying to apply on packs in dungeons. Nah, remove that.
Bane? Remove that as well. Pet management ? To the bin. Buffs variety? Cremated. Buff management with Time Dilation, SCH's AoE Esuna, Rouse, Protect, Stoneskin, etc etc? Done. Energy Drain for a month? Gone. SCH was a skill graveyard when ShB started.

And on top of that, there were some kind of promise that we would get harder heal checks coming over, and that never happened either -- granted, Tower of Zot and Holminster were both a bit harder than expected at release, that promptly disappeared.

tl;dr removal of player choice, removal of dots across the whole game, hitting healers the most because they relied on it the most, trying to apply SB AST gameplay to all jobs despite not being fit to, and no change of healing in either dungeons and harder content.

All the abilities you just mentioned: Remember us. Remember that we once lived.
reading the names of all those abilities just made me sad.

[Jybril]

All the abilities you just mentioned: Remember us. Remember that we once lived.
reading the names of all those abilities just made me sad.

He really put it into mind how they stripped healers to being the same thing, different skin.
Pretty much all play the same. Originality is out the door.
I still miss old AST and I am still 'angy' about it, too. :/

That said, since the whole "more intensive healing" has fell on deaf ears...
How do you guys feel about healers being shifted into a more "support dps"?

We will still heal but maybe cut down on redundant skills and give us more fighty stuff to play with.
I would like to go that route if they can't fix healers being bloated
with several of the same heals and abilities, just to heal and shield...nothing.

Would you like to see the healers with more DPS skills and less " 5 different skills that say 'Heal potency up / Shields'"?
Just throwing some idea's around.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

That said, since the whole "more intensive healing" has fell on deaf ears...
How do you guys feel about healers being shifted into a more "support dps"?

Honestly? At this point I think every role can be seen as a 'support dps'.

Red icons are supports with more damaging capacity & few but effective utilities.
Blue icons are supports with more capabilities to control overall damage taken by parties.
Green icons are supports with more hp restorative & 'oopsie' buttons when things go south. Oh right...

[Doragan]

Dots were severely reduced across the board because the FFXIV code couldn't handle more than 60 on a mob at any time (showing only 30) to include debuffs.

I understand, however, how come it only happened when Stormblood released? ARR was made in mind first for PS3 and PC -- if that limitation was there,why were all the DoTs there to begin with, if the system cannot/difficultly handle it?
I do get why they would have been removed in ARR/HW. But by the time SB released, these numbers were already in check. It's even going further in EW with Ninja.. was it really necessary to begin with,then?

All the abilities you just mentioned: Remember us. Remember that we once lived.
reading the names of all those abilities just made me sad.

I'll be honest, when I entered the Tower of Zot for the first time, seeing Krile casting Aero III on the first mob pack really broke my heart
I understand why things have to change. I don't think anyone is going to be really sad that Stella or Drain got deleted, but -- yeah. I miss Silent Dusk and Apocatastasis a lot. I wish those got replaced in some fashion than binned entirely.