Yoshida telling players to go play other games is very damaging to FFXIV

[Pibz]

People dislike the WoW model and speak against it because it's a lot of FOMO, timegated, frustrating grinding. Lots of garbage.. is still garbage. To be fair it's not ALL garbage. I enjoyed playing WoW for years, but left when all my friends did and it basically became a job to maintain viability by logging in every day for hours.

People don't hate on the WoW devs and game because there is so much to do, it's because what there is to do is not worth it or is predatory.

I want you to precisely elaborate how the content is garbage or how it forces you to play it. Anymore than this game forces you to do extreme trials or savage raids that is. Do go ahead, i gave you plenty of examples of added content the game provides but you refused to engage with any of them in specifics.

Tell me how M+, better PvP (with an actual reinforcing reward ecosystem) and more raid bosses per tier and more raid difficulties is "less worth doing" and more "garbage" than the content in FFXIV. And why you are forced to do any of it in any capacity.

I can say you've missed the point entirely of why people praise FFXIV for the design decisions made. Absolutely none of it being "we're happy they give less content".

Except it very much is, there is no way around that what is happening in this thread is you people deluding yourselves into thinking having less content is a good thing as a coping mechanism.

[ReynTime]

Pretty easy for him to do that PR when owning a house practically prevents you from unsubbing between patches.

[Yeol]

Playing others games help you not get burned out from FFXIV. The first time ever I got burned out from FFXIV is when I started HC raiding. I've been playing the game since 2016, and never got burned out from it until then. I had to log in almost every day for long hours. After some time, It became really hard to sit down and play the game.

[Krotoan]

I want you to precisely elaborate how the content is garbage or how it forces you to play it. Anymore than this game forces you to do extreme trials or savage raids that is. Do go ahead, i gave you plenty of examples of added content the game provides but you refused to engage with any of them in specifics.

Tell me how M+, better PvP (with an actual reinforcing reward ecosystem) and more raid bosses per tier and more raid difficulties is "less worth doing" and more "garbage" than the content in FFXIV. And why you are forced to do any of it in any capacity.

I'm upfront going to say I have not played WoW in years. It got stale and I was sick of logging in on a schedule to make sure that I got to use my ONE run of content to try and get the item I wanted. I also sat down and realized that every event I wasn't logged into and things like AQ opening were just gone forever. It became a job.

From what I hear from my friends who still play WoW: Random drops on dungeon runs with RNG stats and special rolls of items that can be absolute garbage or endgame BIS and entry keys that get wasted if someone flubs the run. Farming Faction that becomes completely useless after the next faction arises or sometimes disappears entirely. New systems that become entirely irrelevant as well. Something about a magetower involved a lot of swearing in my discord.

Nothing ever FORCES someone to play a game, but FOMO and straight up wasting peoples time is a no no for me and that all happens with content that disappears or becomes irrelevant.

FFXIV has examples of this as well and pretending they haven't done it is madness, but it's MUCH less prevalent and not a driving design force like Blizzards designs have been.

Except it very much is, there is no way around that what is happening in this thread is you people deluding yourselves into thinking having less content is a good thing as a coping mechanism.

"you people". Like it's a hive mind.

You can insist it is so, but if I can point to the fact that what people are praising is the design and not the amount, you're wrong. Nobody likes when less of what they like comes out in the next release, but you can still appreciate that what comes out isn't likely to just disappear into irrelevancy within a year or make you engage with it now or never if you want to complete it.

[Tanis_Ebonhart]

I want you to precisely elaborate how the content is garbage or how it forces you to play it. Anymore than this game forces you to do extreme trials or savage raids that is. Do go ahead, i gave you plenty of examples of added content the game provides but you refused to engage with any of them in specifics.

Tell me how M+, better PvP (with an actual reinforcing reward ecosystem) and more raid bosses per tier and more raid difficulties is "less worth doing" and more "garbage" than the content in FFXIV. And why you are forced to do any of it in any capacity.



Except it very much is, there is no way around that what is happening in this thread is you people deluding yourselves into thinking having less content is a good thing as a coping mechanism.

Rep grinds, time gated rep grinds that can take months to complete. Some rep grinds literally forced you to run dungeons over and over with their tabard and that took forever too.

WoW also doesn't have anything like the Gold Saucer.

Furthermore I can still do content from ARR and past expansions. You are blocked from that in WoW where you're forced into SLs whether you like it or not. There's no reason to care for the WoW world or lore when you are never given time to care anymore. All that matters is grinding the same stuff over and over.

There. I destroyed your argument.

[Pibz]

Rep grinds, time gated rep grinds that can take months to complete. Some rep grinds literally forced you to run dungeons over and over with their tabard and that took forever too.

Spoiler: You don't have to do the rep grinds. And they aren't nearly as horrible as you present them. They're akin to doing roulettes and beast tribe dailies in FFXIV.

Unless you mean the expansion factions progression, but that's hardly a "rep" or a "grind". It's just timed story progression with rewards attached. It can't be a grind if there isn't any grinding attached to it. The game completely showers you with renown (the "rep") if you are behind on it. As you gear up and do dungeons it just keeps dropping from multiple content sources.

I can understand some of the complaints about torghast, the main of which that it didn't unlock the floors account wide and that you had to repeat the climb on all alts but that's about it.

These grinds amounted to 2-4 hours per week of gameplay to keep up, depending on the week, and how fast you could clear certain things. Hardly a grind at all

Alas this is all besides the point as no one is advocating for FFXIV to implement the same reward structure, just to have more content. And none of the things you described are issues with the content itself. A swing and a miss

WoW also doesn't have anything like the Gold Saucer.

So WoW doesn't have the darkmoon faire or the pets minigame?

Also I don't care what WoW has or doesn't have for these forum's discussions, the wow devs aren't looking for feedback here (and spoiler alert: i also demand changes in the WoW forums when i play it actively) . I care why FFXIV doesn't have certain content, and just more content in general, and why you people pretend its ok to have less content than you could be having due to some inane dev propaganda of " we just want you not to play as much because its good for you and stuff". As a player you should be interested in the devs giving you a better game. White knighting for devs gives you nothing but a delusional sense of personal connection to them

[Pibz]

I'm upfront going to say I have not played WoW in years. It got stale and I was sick of logging in on a schedule to make sure that I got to use my ONE run of content to try and get the item I wanted. I also sat down and realized that every event I wasn't logged into and things like AQ opening were just gone forever. It became a job.

From what I hear from my friends who still play WoW: Random drops on dungeon runs with RNG stats and special rolls of items that can be absolute garbage or endgame BIS and entry keys that get wasted if someone flubs the run. Farming Faction that becomes completely useless after the next faction arises or sometimes disappears entirely. New systems that become entirely irrelevant as well. Something about a magetower involved a lot of swearing in my discord.

*snipped because character limits*

You're just conflating WoW's reward structure with it having more content here. I could go into why i think of the reward systems in WoW aren't as awful as some people make it out to be (for one they changed the most egregious aspects not that long after the expansion launched) but that's neither here nor there.

I don't like repeating myself but i have to ask yet again. What exactly would you lose by there being more content, why would having smaller scale challenging content, a more cared for PvP, more raid bosses and more raid difficulties (ie more for everyone! casual and hardcore alike) be bad and why would it force you to play the game more inherently? Hell why cant we just have more dungeons?

Personally i'd change my perspective of the game completely if they just worked on a hard mode system for dungeons, say akin to m+ with multiple tiers, etc i think GW2 had a similar system too. It wouldn't have to reward more than bragging rights (to incentivize people to participate somewhat, but far from force them) and/or progression confined solely within the system (similar to how doing bozja and similar content progresses your power further but ONLY within the system itself), with a timer and a datacenter wide ladder. Relatively simple stuff like this would open up engaging content for people like me. I'd take anything really, anything that showed they care about actual gameplay. But year after year they refuse to step outside this absolutely stale content cycle.

Yet every time we want to bring up that we just want more of this kind of stuff we have to fight the circlejerk which proceeds, absolutely invariably, to quote the nonsensical propaganda of "it's so you dont have to play as much ". Im not asking for it to be tied to the "main" progression, just give me more enjoyable stuff to do.

[ArkenaeuxBelmont]

You're just conflating WoW's reward structure with it having more content here. I could go into why i think of the reward systems in WoW aren't as awful as some people make it out to be (for one they changed the most egregious aspects not that long after the expansion launched) but that's neither here nor there.

I don't like repeating myself but i have to ask yet again. What exactly would you lose by there being more content, why would having smaller scale challenging content, a more cared for PvP, more raid bosses and more raid difficulties (ie more for everyone! casual and hardcore alike) be bad and why would it force you to play the game more inherently? Hell why cant we just have more dungeons?

Personally i'd change my perspective of the game completely if they just worked on a hard mode system for dungeons, say akin to m+ with multiple tiers, etc i think GW2 had a similar system too. It wouldn't have to reward more than bragging rights (to incentivize people to participate somewhat, but far from force them) and/or progression confined solely within the system (similar to how doing bozja and similar content progresses your power further but ONLY within the system itself), with a timer and a datacenter wide ladder. Relatively simple stuff like this would open up engaging content for people like me. I'd take anything really, anything that showed they care about actual gameplay. But year after year they refuse to step outside this absolutely stale content cycle.

Yet every time we want to bring up that we just want more of this kind of stuff we have to fight the circlejerk which proceeds, absolutely invariably, to quote the nonsensical propaganda of "it's so you dont have to play as much ". Im not asking for it to be tied to the "main" progression, just give me more enjoyable stuff to do.

Oh because calling an entire community a "you people" like a hive mind is great too, isn't it?

There was another thread made by this same OP poster that created this thread which is now deleted, where they pushed for FFXIV raiding content to be exactly like WoW's. He's a known troll at this point.

Regardless of the fact, I'll reiterate the same thing here that I said in that thread multiple times, since it's been deleted now. The VAST MAJORITY of the playerbase has no issue what so ever with more content being added, and would welcome it. What a good portion of the community is afraid of, is a push for content that would restructure the game more towards something that it isn't, the direction of the game so to speak.

As of right now, FFXIV offers content for a broad range of player spectrums. Hardcore, casual, glamour, housing, gold saucer, crafting/gathering, etc. Each of these has a wealth of content available to them. Raiding especially, even older content, is still relevant. What people don't want to see, is 90% of the game become invalidated with a lopsided push to completely revamp the game towards "only endgame matters" like WoW has done. It's an understandable reaction, both due to the massive influx of the WoW playerbase to FFXIV, and because many started playing FFXIV because it doesn't require you to literally marry it and play 24/7.

There probably are a good deal many of players who are also afraid that switch in direction would come at the cost of story quality as well. You have to admit, the amount of retconning WoW has done since its inception has basically turned its lore into a joke at this point. Where as I can count on one hand the amount of retconning FFXIV has done since ARR. In fact the only thing that pops right into my head is retconning Pharos Sirius existing during the 1.0 era, even though it didn't. Can't think of any others off the top of my head.

Again, you'll find a good majority of the community (Which, I might add, most don't post on the forums. I've been active in the game for almost 3 years and I just started on the forums in December) are not opposed to new content at all, but the fear of a shift in focus, direction, and loss of identity of what has brought FFXIV to this point.

I'm just sick of this "WoW-Outsider" and "FFXIV Hivemind" mentality. It's really starting to wear thin.

[Krotoan]

You're just conflating reward structure with having more content here.

I'm saying that even if the content is released more, its life, relevance, and reason for existing is worse. WoW has likely scrapped or "ruined" more content than FFXIV has ever published, this does not make it better though unless you're someone who is on the crest of that wave and CONSTANTLY engaging in it, which it (to a degree) forces you do to if you ever want to experience it.

I don't like repeating myself but i have to ask yet again. What exactly would you lose by there being more content, why would having smaller scale challenging content, a more cared for PvP, more raid bosses and more raid difficulties (ie more for everyone! casual and hardcore alike) be bad and why would it force you to play the game more inherently? Hell why cant we just have more dungeons?

This isn't your original question or accusation though.
to THIS:
There's no reason aside from resources. Which is why I am saying you're missing the point people are making. Everyone wants more of the stuff they want. The problem being that a huge amount of FFXIV's player base doesn't necessarily just want more dungeons, PVP, etc. They want stuff to engage in all kinds of things like a theme park.


Its evident that while FFXIV is SE's steadfast moneymaker at the moment, they don't have a whole lot of resources. Reasons that have been given are that the combination of talent, dedication, and creativity necessary aren't available. The developers have commented it's not a matter of just hiring more people to be able to make more stuff. As someone who's involved in game development to a degree, I can understand that. You can bring in 100 solid programmers but if they just crank out more stuff without good story behind it, solid and consistent art to found it on and drape around, it's going to be very obvious it's just stuff for stuffs sake.

Might be marketing and PR... sure. But it's been demonstrated with 1.0 that just having a name and money behind something doesn't make it good, you need a team who can make it enjoyable and so far the current team has done very well. So when they comment something like that, there's some cred to be had.

So considering all that, the biggest problem is there is only so many resources to invest, so content as a whole is limited. We want something, it's going to use up a certain amount of resources and if we want MORE of something, there's going to be less of something else. THIS is why people pushback to more of whatever. Cause they don't want that, especially if it's going to cost THEM the thing they want.

YES it's a frustrating thing, but it doesn't seem like SE is changing their current policy and the devs aren't changing their story. Complaining about it has done nothing for 8 years.

Personally i'd change my perspective of the game completely if they just worked on a hard mode system for dungeons, say akin to m+ with multiple tiers, etc i think GW2 had a similar system too. It wouldn't have to reward more than bragging rights (to incentivize people to participate somewhat, but far from force them) or progression confined solely within the system (similar to how doing bozja and similar content progresses your power further but ONLY within the system itself), with a timer and a datacenter wide ladder. Relatively simple stuff like this would open up engaging content for people like me

I'm sure it would, cause you want that. Other people don't want that instead of the things they enjoy, which is what has happened again and again with this game and team. Instead of another dungeon we got Diadem, Eureka, Bozjan front and other things.

None of that takes away from the fact that , again, the design and rewards of the game are available at all times and dropping in and out of the game are not punished for most content. Which is the point everyone who comments "it's so you can take a break" is trying to make.

Yet every time we want to bring up that we just want more of this kind of stuff we have to fight the circlejerk which proceeds, absolutely invariably, to quote the nonsensical propaganda of "it's so you dont have to play as much ". Im not asking for it to be tied to the "main" progression, just give me more enjoyable stuff to do.

All the things you quoted from your original response have nothing to do with people not wanting more things. They're commenting that the things we have, and the way they're designed, are not consumer hostile BS like so many things other companies do.


also:you can get around character limits by snipping your post to match the limit, editing and posting back in the part that was "over".

[Jojoya]

Alas this is all besides the point as no one is advocating for FFXIV to implement the same reward structure, just to have more content. And none of the things you described are issues with the content itself. A swing and a miss

But FFXIV does have plenty of content. I'm able to play far more hours a week than the average player and I rarely feel like I've run out of things to do even though I've been playing since 2015. There's a lot of content I don't even touch like PvP and PotD/HoH.

How much staying power has all of that content WoW created ended up having over the years? Not much considering how much of it they've discarded. Because they don't design content to have staying power beyond the expansion where it's released (and a lot of times not even in the next patch cycle), they're able to churn out lots of poor quality content and then try to brainwash their players into thinking getting more trash is a good thing.

If your complaint is you're not getting enough of the type of content you prefer, that's fair but a game can't cater to every playstyle. The devs have to pick and choose where they spend their time. Here they focus on lasting quality for the type of content it's intended to be. They reiterate and change things if player feedback is they missed the mark. Compare that to the WoW devs who at most would slap on a couple of hotfixes then ignore the content since it isn't intended to last.

If it makes you feel better, YoshiP did get his "there's something I'm really excited about but can't share yet" grin on his face during the media tour interviews when asked if FFXIV would ever add more difficult small group content similar to M+. They aren't ignoring player feedback. But they're also not going to rush content into the game just for the sake of rushing more content into the game, unlike WoW.