Can we please get rid of square and circle arenas for every trials and 8 men raids?

[GrizzlyTank]

And how exactly would any of those shapes enhance the experience of a fight? Can you think of any existing fight that would have been better with any such arena shapes? And keep in mind that concave shapes can get in the way of using gap closers, especially if there's a death wall or you can fall off the platform. DRG jump from around the corner? Byebye. And while that could be viewed as an extra element of challenge it has the potential of making people more annoyed than engaged in the fight.

How exactly won't these shapes enhance the experience of a fight? Designing a raid fight is obviously a creative endeavour, and it is in the creators best interest to utilize as many tools at their disposal as possible which includes the environments. For exceedingly large foes a doughnut shaped arena might work where the boss is stationed in the middle and there are mechanics forcing the players to move clockwise/counterclockwise, alternatively the boss can stand on the arena and chase us along the doughnut. For triangle/cross shaped arenas each corner can be dedicated to it's own mechanic or change up the bosses behaviour when it is inside of them, or the boss teleports around where we have to traverse an obstacle course to reach it. With elevated platforms, the arena can be split into two parts where half the raid need to manage different mechanics. An arena idea could be a rotting/burning tree and as the fight goes on we have to climb it to avoid the rising rot/fire.

Of course all of these things can be done in a perfectly square or circular region such as P2 and elevation, but it should be in the developers best interest to spice things up and to be creative.

Also by now people should have learned not to use their movement abilities, gap-closers included indiscriminately because jumps aren't jumps. If there is a pool of fire and you "jump" through it you will take damage.

[Sicno]

The original raids in many pre-2010 MMOs, especially the EQ and Vanilla WoW era, were exactly that, large scale dungeons that a big group of people worked to progress through. Even though the boss' arenas were effectively big squares, circles, triangles, etc, the space fit into the dungeon more organically. Here in XIV we get arenas that get closed off and whack us over the head with how obvious it is that the space is an enclosed shape. While the two methods are effectively the same, the first has the perception of being a continuation of a larger dungeon system whereas here in XIV the arena mechanic pulls us out of the larger space and hits us with "BOSS FIGHT AREA!".

Again, what you've described can be found in Coils of Bahamut, the first raid series implemented in XIV, from which moving forward they've trimmed the fat over time, removing elements that weren't so popular and focusing on the meat of the raids that keep the people coming back.

Here in XIV "raiding" is synonymous with "challenging content", and it's more associated with the savage raids than their normal versions. For such purposes the trash mobs, the long walks, etc. are not a challenge the more dedicated players care about, so they're deemed a waste of time and what everybody really cares about is conquering the mechanics of the bosses. That's where the meat of the raiding is here. Doing a one-time walk and aoe spam on trash is a pointless chore when you'll spend the next 3 hours wiping to the 8th minute of an encounter you're progging.

[icrot]

OP's asking for more environment related to the raid and I agree. The shape doesn't matter.

The raids could be like the MSQ or even Zadnor fights where you have a designated area and it's limited with a border and invisible wall but you see the environment around you and stuff is happening if you know what I mean. Not just a random pillar in the middle of nowhere.

[Sicno]

For exceedingly large foes a doughnut shaped arena might work where the boss is stationed in the middle and there are mechanics forcing the players to move clockwise/counterclockwise, alternatively the boss can stand on the arena and chase us along the doughnut.

You mean like Suzaku, an encounter that does exist in this game?

For triangle/cross shaped arenas each corner can be dedicated to it's own mechanic or change up the bosses behaviour when it is inside of them

There ARE encounters with each corner or section of an arena dedicated to a mechanic, like the paintings in O6 or the current P4, in which the savage version will likely have a more prominent and player-involved role for each corner. Dunno how a triangle vs a square shape would make it more engaging when the point is just every corner having a different mechanic associated with it. And no, please no cross shapes nor other concave shapes. Like I mentioned earlier, they would be a nightmare with gap closers, DRG jumps, Displacement, etc.

or the boss teleports around where we have to traverse an obstacle course to reach it

In a way you can consider the intermission phases in the 4 Lords trials to be like that. See how much people like Byakko's free fall.

With elevated platforms, the arena can be split into two parts where half the raid need to manage different mechanics.

Oh thanks for reminding me we did have exactly that in E4S, just last expansion.

[DrFlesh]

Again, what you've described can be found in Coils of Bahamut, the first raid series implemented in XIV, from which moving forward they've trimmed the fat over time, removing elements that weren't so popular and focusing on the meat of the raids that keep the people coming back.

Here in XIV "raiding" is synonymous with "challenging content", and it's more associated with the savage raids than their normal versions. For such purposes the trash mobs, the long walks, etc. are not a challenge the more dedicated players care about, so they're deemed a waste of time and what everybody really cares about is conquering the mechanics of the bosses. That's where the meat of the raiding is here. Doing a one-time walk and aoe spam on trash is a pointless chore when you'll spend the next 3 hours wiping to the 8th minute of an encounter you're progging.

how can you be so obtuse?

WE DON'T WANT TRASH MOBS, WE JUST HATE TELEPORTING INTO A CRAPPY SQUARE WITH DEATH WALLS 4 TIMES EVERY 6 MONTHS FOR THE LAST 5 YEARS

o yeah, forgot to mention, the last of the 4 squares usually gets a fart of light and transform into a circle or a smaller square after the "door boss" is dead

[Sicno]

how can you be so obtuse?

WE DON'T WANT TRASH MOBS, WE JUST HATE TELEPORTING INTO A CRAPPY SQUARE WITH DEATH WALLS 4 TIMES EVERY 6 MONTHS FOR THE LAST 5 YEARS

o yeah, forgot to mention, the last of the 4 squares usually gets a fart of light and transform into a circle or a smaller square after the "door boss" is dead

I'm terribly sorry for responding to different points from different people who have also engaged in the conversation.

[Feronar]

A lot of WoW's raids also use circles and squares. Here are the arena shapes for Sanctum of Domination, the most recent WoW raid:
The Tarragrue: Circle
Eye of the Jailer: Oddly shaped
The Nine: Circle
Remnant of Ner'zhul: Circle
Soulrender Dormazain: Circle
Painsmith Raznal: Square
Guardian of the First Ones: Circle
Fatescribe Roh-Kalo: Circle
Kel'thuzad: Oddly shaped
Sylvanas Windrunner: Circle, then Oddly Shaped, then Four Squares

Only 3 of the 10 bosses have arenas that are neither circular nor square: Eye of the Jailer, Kel'thuzad, and Sylvanas Windrunner (2nd phase)

[Krotoan]

"You'd like variety beyond this incredibly narrowly defined form in which <any and all serious content> is offered? Easy solution: go play <not serious content>."

If I'd like another flavor of drink, my solution isn't going to be to find something else to eat. I still want a drink.

Except using your particular analogy OP has asked for a drink with a crunchy texture, more substance and meat. To which we are suggesting maybe go an eat food instead of demanding that a drink take on the characteristics of food.


All of the aspects they are asking for are already present in Alliance raids. Many of which ARE challenging content. OP is not even 60 and has not even reached some of the raids that ARE reasonably challenging and in the environments they're asking for, not to mention they dismissed the alliance raids as "casual". While the crystal tower series is overgeared to heck and a steamroll, the Ivalice raids are most definitely NOT steamrollable and contain exactly what everyone is talking about: Non standard boss arenas, challenging encounters, and enriched environments.

Not to mention that they have ONLY posted comparisons to WoW, seemingly in a very trolling manner, suggesting that FFXIV should cater to unhealthy playstyles and straight up copy WoWs latest expansion just because.


So.. maybe don't be so quick to defend an obvious troll.

[DrFlesh]

A lot of WoW's raids also use circles and squares. Here are the arena shapes for Sanctum of Domination, the most recent WoW raid:
Tarragrue: Circle
Eye of the Jailer: Oddly shaped
The Nine: Circle
Remnant of Ner'zhul: Circle
Soulrender Dormazain: Circle
Painsmith Raznal: Square
Guardian of the First Ones: Circle
Fatescribe Roh-Kalo: Circle
Kel'thuzad: Oddly shaped
Sylvanas Windrunner: Circle, then Oddly SHaped, then Four Squares

you forgot to mention, in wow encounters you can also find: vehicular combat, teleports to secondary/terciary arenas for specific mechanics, changing platforms, obstacle courses and other things

LOL i just realized ffxiv hasn't even used the jump button for a savage encounter in 7 years

[DrFlesh]

Except using your particular analogy OP has asked for a drink with a crunchy texture, more substance and meat. To which we are suggesting maybe go an eat food instead of demanding that a drink take on the characteristics of food.


All of the aspects they are asking for are already present in Alliance raids. Many of which ARE challenging content. OP is not even 60 and has not even reached some of the raids that ARE reasonably challenging and in the environments they're asking for, not to mention they dismissed the alliance raids as "casual". While the crystal tower series is overgeared to heck and a steamroll, the Ivalice raids are most definitely NOT steamrollable and contain exactly what everyone is talking about: Non standard boss arenas, challenging encounters, and enriched environments.

Not to mention that they have ONLY posted comparisons to WoW, seemingly in a very trolling manner, suggesting that FFXIV should cater to unhealthy playstyles and straight up copy WoWs latest expansion just because.


So.. maybe don't be so quick to defend an obvious troll.

op has logs from the last savage tier (i checked because i didn't want to respond to a bait thread if that was the case) so....