Can we please get rid of square and circle arenas for every trials and 8 men raids?

[Illmaeran]

I think they want a dungeon but as a raid?

The original raids in many pre-2010 MMOs, especially the EQ and Vanilla WoW era, were exactly that, large scale dungeons that a big group of people worked to progress through. Even though the boss' arenas were effectively big squares, circles, triangles, etc, the space fit into the dungeon more organically. Here in XIV we get arenas that get closed off and whack us over the head with how obvious it is that the space is an enclosed shape. While the two methods are effectively the same, the first has the perception of being a continuation of a larger dungeon system whereas here in XIV the arena mechanic pulls us out of the larger space and hits us with "BOSS FIGHT AREA!".

I enjoy raiding in XIV and will continue doing it, but I won't lie, it would be an upgrade if raids were structured more organically the way they have been in other MMOs.

[Sicno]

The original raids in many pre-2010 MMOs, especially the EQ and Vanilla WoW era, were exactly that, large scale dungeons that a big group of people worked to progress through. Even though the boss' arenas were effectively big squares, circles, triangles, etc, the space fit into the dungeon more organically. Here in XIV we get arenas that get closed off and whack us over the head with how obvious it is that the space is an enclosed shape. While the two methods are effectively the same, the first has the perception of being a continuation of a larger dungeon system whereas here in XIV the arena mechanic pulls us out of the larger space and hits us with "BOSS FIGHT AREA!".

Again, what you've described can be found in Coils of Bahamut, the first raid series implemented in XIV, from which moving forward they've trimmed the fat over time, removing elements that weren't so popular and focusing on the meat of the raids that keep the people coming back.

Here in XIV "raiding" is synonymous with "challenging content", and it's more associated with the savage raids than their normal versions. For such purposes the trash mobs, the long walks, etc. are not a challenge the more dedicated players care about, so they're deemed a waste of time and what everybody really cares about is conquering the mechanics of the bosses. That's where the meat of the raiding is here. Doing a one-time walk and aoe spam on trash is a pointless chore when you'll spend the next 3 hours wiping to the 8th minute of an encounter you're progging.

[DrFlesh]

Again, what you've described can be found in Coils of Bahamut, the first raid series implemented in XIV, from which moving forward they've trimmed the fat over time, removing elements that weren't so popular and focusing on the meat of the raids that keep the people coming back.

Here in XIV "raiding" is synonymous with "challenging content", and it's more associated with the savage raids than their normal versions. For such purposes the trash mobs, the long walks, etc. are not a challenge the more dedicated players care about, so they're deemed a waste of time and what everybody really cares about is conquering the mechanics of the bosses. That's where the meat of the raiding is here. Doing a one-time walk and aoe spam on trash is a pointless chore when you'll spend the next 3 hours wiping to the 8th minute of an encounter you're progging.

how can you be so obtuse?

WE DON'T WANT TRASH MOBS, WE JUST HATE TELEPORTING INTO A CRAPPY SQUARE WITH DEATH WALLS 4 TIMES EVERY 6 MONTHS FOR THE LAST 5 YEARS

o yeah, forgot to mention, the last of the 4 squares usually gets a fart of light and transform into a circle or a smaller square after the "door boss" is dead

[Sicno]

how can you be so obtuse?

WE DON'T WANT TRASH MOBS, WE JUST HATE TELEPORTING INTO A CRAPPY SQUARE WITH DEATH WALLS 4 TIMES EVERY 6 MONTHS FOR THE LAST 5 YEARS

o yeah, forgot to mention, the last of the 4 squares usually gets a fart of light and transform into a circle or a smaller square after the "door boss" is dead

I'm terribly sorry for responding to different points from different people who have also engaged in the conversation.

[Illmaeran]

Again, what you've described can be found in Coils of Bahamut, the first raid series implemented in XIV, from which moving forward they've trimmed the fat over time, removing elements that weren't so popular and focusing on the meat of the raids that keep the people coming back.

Here in XIV "raiding" is synonymous with "challenging content", and it's more associated with the savage raids than their normal versions. For such purposes the trash mobs, the long walks, etc. are not a challenge the more dedicated players care about, so they're deemed a waste of time and what everybody really cares about is conquering the mechanics of the bosses. That's where the meat of the raiding is here. Doing a one-time walk and aoe spam on trash is a pointless chore when you'll spend the next 3 hours wiping to the 8th minute of an encounter you're progging.

1. I completely agree; Coils had a lot of the features I described and I still think of it fondly for that reason. Coming from multiple other games where raids were in the old-school Grand Dungeon style, I appreciated Coil and the Syrcus Tower raids for being large immersive environments.

2. I stopped raiding in other MMOs circa 2013 so I can't speak to how raiding in other games has changed aside from being aware of Mythic+ in WoW. I understand that Raiding here in XIV generally refers to the 8-player, non-Alliance content. I enjoy the non-Alliance raids for what they are, understanding that times change and with it, a game's content. That being said the Trial > Cutscene > Trial > Cutscene pattern no longer seems like raiding to me. It's interesting and enjoyable content with cool story progression but they're not the Epic-In-Scope Dungeons I, in my old-school mind, associate with raiding.

[Sicno]

That being said the Trial > Cutscene > Trial > Cutscene pattern no longer seems like raiding to me. It's interesting and enjoyable content with cool story progression but they're not the Epic-In-Scope Dungeons I, in my old-school mind, associate with raiding.

That's a result of the aforementioned trimming of the raiding experience. In Coils the blend of storytelling and raiding may be more engaging. In Alexander they created a "normal", easier version of the raids and the story is in that version so that everybody could see said story without needing to engage in more demanding content. Those normal versions still kept a walk to the boss plus trash, which were unnecessary in savage because the point there is the big challenge. Yet apparently they were deemed unnecessary too moving into Stormblood, and that's where the format we know today of Trial > Cutscene > Trial > Cutscene solidified. As you can see a more "robust" experience is something that was present in the game at first but that was gradually trimmed of its not-so-popular elements. That's a result of player feedback and not something that was designed from the get-go.