Drk absorb hp, or mp, why was this nerfed

[ssunny2008]

The flaw in that logic is that if you were to seriously speedrun dungeons you would just ditch the healer entirely and take WAR and 3 DPS. Something that was actually done routinely in Shadowbringers.

Nah, you would go for 2x Reaper / 2x DNC and call it a day. But the whole thematic is about standard comps isn´t it?!

No, time spent babysitting the drk means less time spent dealing damage. Dark knight is *barely* above Gunbreaker in terms of high end content, has worse a defensive kit, and is poorly designed. War in 4 mans on the other hand, does not require baby sitting. meaning the healer can do damage. meaning things die faster.
Also having a heal on C&S would be cool. It's kind of funny how you argue against skills with multiple effects when paladin literally has a gcd damaging spell that under requiescat does *the more damage than C&S and has a 400 heal potency on top of it.*

You should read a bit further:

As long as the healer doesn´t have to use any GCD, he won´t lose any damage. SCH might be the only exception. And it´s still up to the player behind it, how fast a tank "melts". I´ve seen all surviving or even dieing to the same trashgroup, because either the tanks made mistakes, the healer, or both.

[saber_alter]

You should read a bit further:

This is true in an ideal world. 'as long as' is a fallacy, and shouldn't be accounted for. Dungeons are not difficult, but mistakes happen.

Healers have multiple amounts of O-GCDS, if you're making a competent Healer use GCDs just to keep you alive, it's really on the tank for not using rotated tank cooldowns properly, or DPS not pulling enough damage.It has nothing to do with other tanks having more " heal sustains" except Warriors temporary invincible mode. A more competent tank is always going to play better with the situation than burn everything.

Of course, however drk's current defensive kit is still weaker than other tanks and is the only one with a invuln that requires the healer to pay attention to the tank. while the usage of the latter skill would imply a weaker tank playing the job, it also renders said skill effectively worthless if either the tank is competent or the healer is actively paying attention to the tank (this is barring circumstances where the tank and healer are communicating properly, but i digress). I'm not even talking about tank self heals. PLD, GNB, and War just simply have the better defensive kits.

[Undeadfire]

PLD, GNB, and War just simply have the better defensive kits.

Then why does Dark Knight, need more fixes on this?

My question is this, Paladin has had no self mitigation upgrades till Endwalker, all in the past stuck with 2 cooldowns, guaranteed shield block, and Intervention which cannot be used on it's self. It handled Dungeons, EX trials, Savage raids, Ultimates without much issues tanking over Drk/War/Gnb when needed, not preferably, E3S/E8S specially attacked both tanks permanently, TEA phase 2 attacks both tanks. Why does Dark Knight suddenly need more mitigation when it really isn't the problem? Micela is very correct the sustain is over the top and needs bringing down.

[saber_alter]

Then why does Dark Knight, need more fixes on this?

My question is this, Paladin has had no self mitigation upgrades till Endwalker, all in the past stuck with 2 cooldowns, guaranteed shield block, and Intervention which cannot be used on it's self.

It handled Dungeons, EX trials, Savage raids, Ultimates without much issues tanking over Drk/War/Gnb when needed, not preferably, E3S/E8S specially attacked both tanks permanently, TEA phase 2 attacks both tanks. Why does Dark Knight suddenly need more mitigation when it really isn't the problem? Micela is very correct the sustain is over the top and needs bringing down.

I never said anything was wrong with pld pre endwalker. I quite like how paladin was improved, and would have welcomed qol changes like the ones they received in endwalker had they come earlier.

Even then it wasn't just paladin. *everyone had weaker defensive skills besides dark knight.* stone, RI, sheltron? all weaker. Damage was scaled to account for those weaker skills as well. TBN was stronger because that was the competition. the rest of the kits across all the tanks is identical barring their invulns and ribbon skills.

DRK needs a defensive buff simply because of how things have been changed. TBN is competing with skills that do far more than it, without drawback for misuse, and are still stronger irregardless. living dead is at this point a worse holmgang that has a minute longer cooldown. Oblation is decent. kinda.

Sustain is fine. we don't even have savage trials out, and even then sustain is acceptable in the two ex trials. Wouldn't mess with that until 4.2 since that gives them time to design boss mechanics around jobs with less sustain.

DRK´s invul might be somehow special, but it has actually the best design and all of them are somehow balanced out throuth the use-time and cooldown.

Living dead is well designed in theory, in practice it's a mess. It is interesting on paper to have an invuln that relies on healers to function, but more often than not it just dissuades players from using it outside of situations where coordination is already a given, and even then you rarely get the full effect from it.

Invul is a superior tool and in kind of DRK you´re going to think twice about "should i use it?", unless you´re a WHM with benediction ready. That´s how such superior surviving-tools should work. Not like e.g. PLD Hallowed Ground, which can carry whole raids whrough badass mechanics with a tethered heal + LB3 or is just use because it has no cons.

While HG is a better skill than LD, Holmgang and superbolide exist, have the same duration as HG, and has a shorter cooldown. It's kind of baffling that hallowed has such a long CD even though it's actual comparisons have barely any drawbacks.

And if you take the healing tools from others away, DRK should be superior. All of them has the 3 same defs aka Reprisal, Rampant and the 30% hard cd. Then all of them share one unique def, but that´s it.

taking away things is boring and defeats the purpose of giving them that sustain in the first place.

PLD is already going to lose since any other defs assists only his group members and he needs to be healed to make use of one of them. The other 3 share a 60s cooldown, which is so far balanced throughout the kit and better / worse based on the situation. GNB is the only one with an extra cd, meanwhile PLD has a blockchance. And both are needed, because they don´t have such strong tools like BLN or Raw Intuition (With heal ofc).
Without counting the healing, DRK would win hard i guess with a 15s hard cd without a real con.

This block of text is kind of a mess? If you are predicting what would happen if we removed sustain from the other jobs we'd just be back to shadowbringers but with slightly better cds. I just left shadowbringers. I do not wish to return.

[ssunny2008]

Sustain is fine. we don't even have savage trials out, and even then sustain is acceptable in the two ex trials. Wouldn't mess with that until 4.2 since that gives them time to design boss mechanics around jobs with less sustain.

Sorry but sustain is laughable. The 1st primal is going to be played without healers or soloheal already, the 2nd with soloheal, solotank or even both. The damage income is a joke, tankbusters can be taken without cooldowns, stack-tankbusters can be taken solo with 1-2 cooldowns since nothing comes between them. Imo the addphase at the 2nd EX hurts more than the whole boss.
And healers sit on a bunch of medigation tools, have 80% critshields, extra barriers and other stuff. Stuff you do even barely use and which just got added for the way too often used multistack-marks. The only way to wipe is still because either the healer or the DPS fckd up 2 mechanics in a row and died poorly 5s before the named stackmarker appears, meanwhile tanks are undying monsters who´ll still survive that big aoe with 5 vuln-stacks.

The content-balance has been bad and is even worse imo. The only reason why "savage is savage" is because you´ve one-shot mechanics which will wipe the whole raid if 1 out of 8 players stays 1mm too far away from his spot. The only reason why so many statics need that long is because 1 or 2 ppl can´t remember what´s going on or need a navigation tool for that little arena. Not because their jobs have not enough tools or because the overall mechanics are so hard to play.

[ssunny2008]

This is true in an ideal world. 'as long as' is a fallacy, and shouldn't be accounted for. Dungeons are not difficult, but mistakes happen.

Yeah they happen, but this got already kept in mind in kind of the overall dungeon balancing. The content is not even casual, it´s braindead, meanwhile healers and tanks are able to solo the most stuff. DPS are the only ones who needs to be carried somehow. You´ve a lot of possibilities, you can outgear the whole dungeon, you can pull less, and and and...

That the content or class balancing should go from "highly broken tanks + braindead content" to "super duper extreme broken tanks + zombie-mode content" is a no-go. Imo the whole topics everywhere are just about "Please make everything broken, DRK isn´t as broken as WAR imo, pls change." Of course ppl use other words, but it lasts like this.
And seriously it doesn´t make sense to throw healers and the overall tank-competence out of the window, because we would´ve 4 tanks sitting on 123 gameplay with emergency-buttons for the whole group. If a bunch of ppl would actually put a bare minimum efford in their jobs instead of relying on broken kits, they could also have fun running through dungeons.

Balancing is a hard step, i know. But in kind of FF14 it´s not balancing, it´s just homogenization and overtuning to prepare for the WORST worst cases of all time and to make the classes "more accessible" like everyone would be 3 or 80 years old. (Just saying healer LB3, when they normally don´t even use their whole kit.)
And the "community" assists that kind of homogenization. Pretty much any feedback is more like "Why DRK is not like WAR in self-sustain?, Why does MNK has no gapclosers like SAM?, Why does BLM don´t have a rezz?" and so on. Everything have to be perfect aligned and scripted, needs to be broken and easy to use. This is a nightmare for the gameplay.

Of course, however drk's current defensive kit is still weaker than other tanks and is the only one with a invuln that requires the healer to pay attention to the tank. while the usage of the latter skill would imply a weaker tank playing the job, it also renders said skill effectively worthless if either the tank is competent or the healer is actively paying attention to the tank (this is barring circumstances where the tank and healer are communicating properly, but i digress). I'm not even talking about tank self heals. PLD, GNB, and War just simply have the better defensive kits.

That´s highly opinion-based, especially the last statement.

DRK´s invul might be somehow special, but it has actually the best design and all of them are somehow balanced out throuth the use-time and cooldown. Invul is a superior tool and in kind of DRK you´re going to think twice about "should i use it?", unless you´re a WHM with benediction ready. That´s how such superior surviving-tools should work. Not like e.g. PLD Hallowed Ground, which can carry whole raids whrough badass mechanics with a tethered heal + LB3 or is just used because it has no cons.

And if you take the healing tools from others away, DRK should be superior. All of them has the 3 same defs aka Reprisal, Rampant and the 30% hard cd. Then all of them share one unique def, but that´s it.
PLD is already going to lose since any other defs assists only his group members and he needs to be healed to make use of one of them. The other 3 share a 60s cooldown, which is so far balanced throughout the kit and better / worse based on the situation. GNB is the only one with an extra cd, meanwhile PLD has a blockchance. And both are needed, because they don´t have such strong tools like BLN or Raw Intuition (With heal ofc).
Without counting the healing, DRK would win hard i guess with a 15s hard cd without a real con.

There are no Endwalker dungeons with an 11+ mob pull for AD to beat Equilibrium, or at least I can't remember any. For a healing tool that can only be used in dungeons, it's the weakest tank heal in dungeons.

Man it has been about a joked "1000 potency" before. 1000 healing potency on a heal with multiprocc, when WARs 400 are already way too much?
It hasn´t been about a comparison in that way.