Endwalker AST has too many buttons, and other issues

[RinaShinomiya]

Last thing some classes need are less buttons. They've dumbed some of them down enough.

This isn't a case of of dumbing the job down. There are at least 6 buttons that don't need to exist in AST's toolkit because they aren't doing anything other than bloat the hotbar.
- Why does Benefic I need to be a separate button, nobody is gonna use it when Benefic II is available. I'm sorry but Freecure and Ehanced Benefic traits are really bad.
- Crown Play and Play are unnecessary and the cool stuff you can do with Play suffers from macro queuing system (or lack there of).
- Why does Undraw still exist, its literally less than useless since 5.0.
- Post-SGE its really hard to justify Aspected Spells and the Dot existing as separate buttons, like AST is the easiest Job to apply this QoL Sage introduced. Add a "Aspection" button that turns Benefic II into Aspected Benefic, Helios into Aspected Helios, Malefic into Aspected Malefic (Combust).

There 6 button removed and only 1 added and the class plays exactly as it does now. And i didn't even mention Redraw or Astrodyne which honestly just makes the Job twice more busy than it has to for virtually no benefit.
Feel free to add more buttons via this free'd up space. How about we add AoE Dots again? Aspected Gravity lets go! So much room for new stuff!
And thanks to this fat trimming controller players don't have to deal with 34 abilities when 32 is the most they can comfortably use via the XHB and WXHB.

[CrimsonGunner]

This isn't a case of of dumbing the job down. There are at least 6 buttons that don't need to exist in AST's toolkit because they aren't doing anything other than bloat the hotbar.
- Why does Benefic I need to be a separate button, nobody is gonna use it when Benefic II is available. I'm sorry but Freecure and Ehanced Benefic traits are really bad.
- Crown Play and Play are unnecessary and the cool stuff you can do with Play suffers from macro queuing system (or lack there of).
- Why does Undraw still exist, its literally less than useless since 5.0.
- Post-SGE its really hard to justify Aspected Spells and the Dot existing as separate buttons, like AST is the easiest Job to apply this QoL Sage introduced. Add a "Aspection" button that turns Benefic II into Aspected Benefic, Helios into Aspected Helios, Malefic into Aspected Malefic (Combust).

There 6 button removed and only 1 added and the class plays exactly as it does now. And i didn't even mention Redraw or Astrodyne which honestly just makes the Job twice more busy than it has to for virtually no benefit.
Feel free to add more buttons via this free'd up space. How about we add AoE Dots again? Aspected Gravity lets go! So much room for new stuff!
And thanks to this fat trimming controller players don't have to deal with 34 abilities when 32 is the most they can comfortably use via the XHB and WXHB.

to add to the options of button removal, i would throw astrodyn to the mix and simply make it a trait that automatically activate instead due to how redraw and the current seal system is right now.

[rewd]

- Post-SGE its really hard to justify Aspected Spells and the Dot existing as separate buttons, like AST is the easiest Job to apply this QoL Sage introduced. Add a "Aspection" button that turns Benefic II into Aspected Benefic, Helios into Aspected Helios, Malefic into Aspected Malefic (Combust).

You could simply merge Benefic, Benefic II and Aspected Benefic together and make it heal and apply a regen, similarly to how Adlo heals and applies a shield. Same for Helios and Aspected Helios.

[RinaShinomiya]

You could simply merge Benefic, Benefic II and Aspected Benefic together and make it heal and apply a regen, similarly to how Adlo heals and applies a shield. Same for Helios and Aspected Helios.

No. Benefic 2 and Aspected Benefic, Helios and Aspected Helios actually have a reason to be separate buttons. You can't spam Aspected versions of these spells and heal nearly the same amount of HP as using Aspected version once + multiple regular ones. It works exactly the same on Sage. Your suggestion would actually worsen the jobs healing capabilities.

[rewd]

No. Benefic 2 and Aspected Benefic, Helios and Aspected Helios actually have a reason to be separate buttons. You can't spam Aspected versions of these spells and heal nearly the same amount of HP as using Aspected version once + multiple regular ones. It works exactly the same on Sage. Your suggestion would actually worsen the jobs healing capabilities.

Which is why you would obviously adjust potencies so that already redundant skills would become even more redundant...

Yes, I imagine AST would be a bad healer without Helios, it's such a key skill in its kit...
We really, really don't need 5 GCD heals that all do the same boring thing with small differences, especially because they are skills we don't even want to use at all.

Why are Benefic and Benefic II different? Well, for the reason you think Helios and A. Helios totally need. There are very niche situations in which Benefic (and Cure) can be useful. Are they very niche scenarios? You can bet on it, just like with the other GCD heals you really, really think need to exist.

Your suggestions also have important implications. Giving AST the Eukrasia treatment would be awful because you would give up on the double weave from Combust.
MA and Crown Play are different buttons because that allows you to draw a card and start the cooldown of MA. You don't need two different buttons to get that effect, but simply merging them together wouldn't make it possible.

[RinaShinomiya]

Your suggestions also have important implications. Giving AST the Eukrasia treatment would be awful because you would give up on the double weave from Combust.
MA and Crown Play are different buttons because that allows you to draw a card and start the cooldown of MA. You don't need two different buttons to get that effect, but simply merging them together wouldn't make it possible.

Double weaving would certainly be a loss but i dont see how it would be impossible to have a skill be on cooldown while it also changes into its respective play button. In fact i think Dragoon already has that with greiskrogul and Nastrond.

[HyoMinPark]

MA and Crown Play are different buttons because that allows you to draw a card and start the cooldown of MA. You don't need two different buttons to get that effect, but simply merging them together wouldn't make it possible.

I think this is incorrect. The developers have proven that they can consolidate while also immediately triggering the cooldown of an ability—and on AST, no less. The second you place Earthly Star, its button changes into Stellar Detonation. Regardless of when you detonate it, if you do it manually or let it go off naturally, the cooldown has already been ticking down for the next Star usage. It’s not like HW or SB Draw where holding a card delayed Draw’s cooldown reset.

Minor Arcana could absolutely be programmed the same way as Earthly Star.


Re: Cure I/Benefic I having niche usages—

All of the base single-target heals (Cure I, Benefic I, Physick, and Diagnosis) stop being useful around level 40—a bit higher for WHM due to their poor MP economy pre-Assize and Solace, but you really shouldn’t be using Cure I beyond level 50 at the very latest. It is impossible to maintain a tank in leveling dungeons beyond ARR with Cure I spam. The potency simply cannot keep up with the incoming damage the tank is eating. Even for SGE you spam Eukrasian Diagnosis over regular Diagnosis (if you’re ever in a horrible situation where you have to resort to that); Diagnosis is way too weak to sustain.

[rewd]

I think this is incorrect. The developers have proven that they can consolidate while also immediately triggering the cooldown of an ability—and on AST, no less. The second you place Earthly Star, its button changes into Stellar Detonation. Regardless of when you detonate it, if you do it manually or let it go off naturally, the cooldown has already been ticking down for the next Star usage. It’s not like HW or SB Draw where holding a card delayed Draw’s cooldown reset.

Minor Arcana could absolutely be programmed the same way as Earthly Star.


Re: Cure I/Benefic I having niche usages—

All of the base single-target heals (Cure I, Benefic I, Physick, and Diagnosis) stop being useful around level 40—a bit higher for WHM due to their poor MP economy pre-Assize and Solace, but you really shouldn’t be using Cure I beyond level 50 at the very latest. It is impossible to maintain a tank in leveling dungeons beyond ARR with Cure I spam. The potency simply cannot keep up with the incoming damage the tank is eating. Even for SGE you spam Eukrasian Diagnosis over regular Diagnosis (if you’re ever in a horrible situation where you have to resort to that); Diagnosis is way too weak to sustain.

Earthly Star works because the detonation timer is shorter than the cooldown of the skill. As you said, the star will explode after 20 seconds, regardless of what you do, and the cooldown of the skill will be at 40s at that point. This wouldn't work with Minor Arcana because cards don't have a timer. You could draw a card and hold it for the whole fight. With MA and CP merged, you would draw a card and be unable to see how much is left on the cooldown because nothing would force you to use the card in the span of 60s. This would be easily fixable by giving cards a timer (something like 50s), but that was my point: simply merging the two buttons would be problematic without an additional fix/change.

Regarding healing spells: I'm not saying those skills are enough to heal whatever you want to heal or that you should use them. I'm saying that if we are getting nitpicky enough to say that Helios totally deserves to be a skill because there are those niche scenarios in which you really, really need that additional potency from Helios or need to spam so many GCD heals (on AST, of all healers), then we can make similar arguments for things like Benefic and Benefic II and I've been in those situations (usual cursed mentor roulettes). Still, I would be more than happy to see Benefic gone, merged or whatever, as well as other skills. We simply don't need so many healing skills - especially skills we don't want to touch -. Just take the Blue Mage approach.

[HyoMinPark]

Earthly Star works because the detonation timer is shorter than the cooldown of the skill. As you said, the star will explode after 20 seconds, regardless of what you do, and the cooldown of the skill will be at 40s at that point. This wouldn't work with Minor Arcana because cards don't have a timer. You could draw a card and hold it for the whole fight. With MA and CP merged, you would draw a card and be unable to see how much is left on the cooldown because nothing would force you to use the card in the span of 60s. This would be easily fixable by giving cards a timer (something like 50s), but that was my point: simply merging the two buttons would be problematic without an additional fix/change.

This isn’t a really good defense. Just because the cards no longer have timers doesn’t mean that they can’t still make Minor Arcana (and Draw) function the same way Earthly Star does with regards to resetting its countdown. Just because you can hold a card indefinitely now (theoretically) doesn’t mean that this isn’t possible. I agree with the above post: if you’re holding on to that Lady of Crowns or Ewer the entire fight, then you deserve to lose those casts and have that cooldown drift.

But it can be done. The developers have proven you can program skills this way. And I seriously hope that they consider this in the future. I’m sure they could add onto the job gauge the cooldown/charge timer in some way for those who would like to track it, or may be trying to strategically hold a card for a burst window or something. There’s just no need for Play and Crown Play to exist. And the same can be said for Undraw, to be honest. Even if, during my Astrodyne seal gathering, I want to Undraw out of frustration when Clarifying Draw gives me THE SAME SEAL WHEN I USE IT. (Honestly, that should be hotfixed or something—would be a nice QoL to program Redraw to give you at least a different seal than the one you had Drawn before…)

[anhaato]

- Post-SGE its really hard to justify Aspected Spells and the Dot existing as separate buttons, like AST is the easiest Job to apply this QoL Sage introduced. Add a "Aspection" button that turns Benefic II into Aspected Benefic, Helios into Aspected Helios, Malefic into Aspected Malefic (Combust).

Sure, if you don't want SGE to be unique anymore, and you want to lose double weave opportunities, since out the healers AST and SCH double weave the most.

As far as button reduction and fixes goes I would:
-Consolidate draw and play to one button
-Delete undraw, please
-Bring back 5.3 sleeve draw to help mitigate rng
-Give 2 charges of clarifying draw

Regarding the issues with astrodyne and minor arcana:
-Consolidate minor arcana and crown play
-Make minor arcana function as it did pre-5.1(?), swap a drawn card to lord or lady that you hold
-Make astrodyne 120s to make it fit 120 burst like we used to (sorta), as it is now it's effectively a 90s cd

The reason I want that to happen is so it could work thus: After using astrodyne and putting it on cd, you can use your extra cards by turning them into lord or lady by hitting minor arcana, which then turns into crown play on the same button. Having to press minor arcana and then play it on a separate button press was an issue in 5.x because all of our cards were targeted, but new lord and lady are both aoe so by removing the targeting from the equation it would be a lot easier to minor arcana then crown play on the next weave opportunity. This in conjunction with redraw charges gives us more agency in pulling a lord or lady based on what we need at the time, and having crown play would give us flexibility in when it's used.

Example: you prepull draw, play, draw (redraw as necessary), play, then sleeve draw, then astrodyne. And now you still have an extra charge of draw sitting around, so you use that to get a seal, wait 30s, seal, 30s, then you come upon your 3rd draw usage before astrodyne and sleeve draw come off cooldown. In that moment, you may want to draw and then minor arcana so you can use sleeve draw for guaranteed 3rd seal. Then you can think about what's about to happen, is there about to be some heavy damage going out? In that case, say you draw a balance, you redraw, get an arrow, redraw again, and you get a ewer. Then you minor arcana it and hold it until the damage goes out, then crown play your lady for the heal. Then it's time for your 120 burst, so you sleeve draw, then astrodyne again.

I feel that changes like this would do a great job for reducing button bloat by at least 2 buttons, while also making the playstyle more exciting despite that and giving you more agency in what happens and avenues for mitigating rng.