Summoner Quality Of Life

[Warlyx]

his attacks are at 430 potency, but the global filler is less strong than garuda and titan, he certainly has less stack, but with the cast he is just as long as the others, and yes overall ifrit is weak, but he is not the only cause of the loss of power of the summoner, the real problem is rather phoenix than ifrit which is supposed to be the big burst but which does not compete with bahamut in terms of damage, for a situational regen,
and the dps that's supposed to go up in phoenix, does the opposite and goes down.

ifrit needs something what? i dunno

phoenix feels meh ....baha is good because u get deathflare on top of ahk morn that burst is the best smn has for it

remove the regen and give phoenix a real flare

[Daralii]

Does it? It has almost as much mobility than ranged physical DPS, but arguably these three jobs have a more "complex" rotation, at least Bard and Dancer do. Can't say for Machinist as I don't really know about it.

I have mained SMN in Stormblood and Shadowbringers, I just finished leveling it yesterday and I don't like it. It's my opinion, and as you say I just won't play it. But I don't think it should have better single target damage than it currently has. It used to be powerful (maybe overpowered sometimes I will agree) and it had great mobility but still had a clunky rotation with several micro managements going on which, at least for me, justified it's great damage output and skill ceiling.
Currently, there isn't any reason for SMN to be able to do great damage, virtually be as mobile as a ranged phys, have a raise and buff the party, while keeping a very simple rotation of "press these 3 buttons that light up".
A minor DPS buff is fine. But I don't think it should rival with other jobs that have more complexity to them. They should either increase the skill ceiling, or give it more support options. As of today, I think the job goes a bit everywhere with no real consistency, which is a lot to say about SMN when it had that very same problem on another level with its multi-gimmicks flow before (Aetherstacks, DoTs, Pet management, Trance management, ghosting issues, mobility planning).

Yoshida said in an interview around the time of the media tour that the only reason SMN still has Resurrection is that they weren't sure the job would be balanced on release. It definitely needs potency buffs if that's the end goal.

[Bonkleberry]

his attacks are at 430 potency, but the global filler is less strong than garuda and titan, he certainly has less stack, but with the cast he is just as long as the others, and yes overall ifrit is weak, but he is not the only cause of the loss of power of the summoner, the real problem is rather phoenix than ifrit which is supposed to be the big burst but which does not compete with bahamut in terms of damage, for a situational regen,
and the dps that's supposed to go up in phoenix, does the opposite and goes down.

Are you trying to make an argument that Ifrit and Phoenix are weak because they have less attacks during their phases than other phases? I do not get your point at all--what does that have to do with quality of life? The attacks you have access to during Phoenix and Ifrit are part of your rotation and their potencies are quite high compared to some of your other attacks and even attacks that other casters get. Would you rather Ifrit has more attacks during his phase, forcing you to clip phases more often for Bahamut and Phoenix? Would you rather Phoenix lose the healing utility SMN brings to a party just so you can get one extra 500 potency attack every minute (to make it balanced with damage during Bahamut phase)?

Like, I get it. SMN has lower DPS right now compared to other jobs. But SMN damage is not broken (we can complete the Earth, Sea, and Sky thing for extremes) and dealing damage is not a quality of life issue, which is the topic of this thread.

[Corbeau]

The only QoL change I want is allowing searing light to be used out of combat. It's not a huge deal but feels clunky.

I actually like having to plan my carbuncle shield in advance, so I wouldn't want that changed.

[Cithaerias_pyropina]

Small MP reduction? My SMN seems to have infinite MP currently, so I just do not agree with you there.

Why would you use Searing Light outside of combat? If you mean for pre-pull or something, then just work Searing Light intelligently into your opener. I have been using Ruin III > Energy Drain > Ruin IV > Searing Light.

And I am completely baffled why people keep saying or suggesting the Ifrit skills are weak. Ifrit's ST attack and the two Crimson Combo attacks all have a potency of 430. Would you rather cast Ruin III or something during the Ifrit phase?

If you keep Lucid Dreaming on cooldown SMN has infinite MP. The job goes oom in around 3 minutes and 45 seconds if you don't use Lucid Dreaming. Garuda's Emerald Rite and Catastrophe are extremely costly. You only regen 200 mana per 3 seconds in combat. Garuda expends 1200 MP in 6 seconds. Takes RDM around 5 minutes and 20 seconds to go oom and that's just spamming spells.

Brotherhood, Arcane Circle, Divination and Embolden are all party wide raid buffs and can be used out of combat. So why should Searing Light continue to be locked to in combat only? Edit-Unless I am wrong about the aforementioned, but nowhere on the job guide does it say they can't be used outside of combat.

Titan does 480 potency per GCD. Topaz Rite+Mountain Buster weave. Ifrit only does 430 potency per gcd, but Ruby Rite has a cast time .3 seconds longer than your gcd so you actually lose potency per second during Ifrit. Either Topaz Rite needs a 25 potency nerf and Mountain Buster a 30 potency nerf or Ifrit needs a 60 to 65 potency buff to Ruby Rite and Crimson Cyclone/Strike to warrant the slow cast time and the risk involved with his phase as he is unequivocally weaker than Titan and Titan has mobility for days.

[zcrash970]

Are you trying to make an argument that Ifrit and Phoenix are weak because they have less attacks during their phases than other phases? I do not get your point at all--what does that have to do with quality of life? The attacks you have access to during Phoenix and Ifrit are part of your rotation and their potencies are quite high compared to some of your other attacks and even attacks that other casters get. Would you rather Ifrit has more attacks during his phase, forcing you to clip phases more often for Bahamut and Phoenix? Would you rather Phoenix lose the healing utility SMN brings to a party just so you can get one extra 500 potency attack every minute (to make it balanced with damage during Bahamut phase)?

Like, I get it. SMN has lower DPS right now compared to other jobs. But SMN damage is not broken (we can complete the Earth, Sea, and Sky thing for extremes) and dealing damage is not a quality of life issue, which is the topic of this thread.

Ifrit is a problem because it's literally the only time you are at risk during your rotation. Two long casts and a melee combo. If anything he should be the strongest out the 3 but he is the weakest

[remiff]

how the fact that ifrit is weaker than the others with a cast, and phoenix has a heal instead of a damage spell that degrades the summoner's burst is not a change in quality of life on the summoner, I do not understand, at least I relate only facts, I do not impose my point of view as you do.
if a large majority of people related to the problems on the summoner, it is because these are present, and that changing them is therefore changes in quality of life, and talking about increasing the dps on a burst on a job which is currently rather weak in single target is clearly an aid to the quality of life.
it's not just a question of cooldown, and effects to modify.

The concern of phoenix is ​​that they have chosen to give a scholar excog instead of a deathflare equivalent spell, which makes phoenix much less interesting, and does not stabilize the burst every minute of the summoner because yes 500 less potency per minute is huge, especially since phoenix healing is too situational is unpleasant to use to be really effective outside of dungeons.

You can give a simple example, summoner level 79 is stronger than summoner 80.

Summoner is far from perfect and needs a change in 6.1.

[dinnertime]

Does it? (Needs Potecncy buffs)

Yes, badly. It's the 2nd worst-performing DPS in the game.

I feel like they didn't take account the damage old SMN does in the background (DoTs and pet auto attacks) with this rework.

[Grimoire-M]

Are you trying to make an argument that Ifrit and Phoenix are weak because they have less attacks during their phases than other phases? I do not get your point at all--what does that have to do with quality of life? The attacks you have access to during Phoenix and Ifrit are part of your rotation and their potencies are quite high compared to some of your other attacks and even attacks that other casters get. Would you rather Ifrit has more attacks during his phase, forcing you to clip phases more often for Bahamut and Phoenix? Would you rather Phoenix lose the healing utility SMN brings to a party just so you can get one extra 500 potency attack every minute (to make it balanced with damage during Bahamut phase)?

Like, I get it. SMN has lower DPS right now compared to other jobs. But SMN damage is not broken (we can complete the Earth, Sea, and Sky thing for extremes) and dealing damage is not a quality of life issue, which is the topic of this thread.

Actually, they kind of are, but not in the way you're thinking. It's not about the numbers being low, but about how they make the DPS rotation feel samey. Compared to prior iterations our spike dps is significantly lower, and depends mostly on Enkindle crits. I barely even notice the avatars, and with most of the effective GCD potency sitting at 410-430, and 470ish, it causes each action to have less impact.

This is compounded by the fact that the vast majority of the buttons are instant-cast and the lackluster audio, and the abhorrent delay caused by the resummon mechanic. Not only does it prevent us from doing stuff with our pet (This is why they removed Carby/Egi Autos. You wouldn't be able to ignore the gaps if you had to interact with them at all), it makes the intended highlight of the rework feel like wet air. Literally I forgot I was using Titan, Ifrit, and Garuda repeatedly while doing fights, until I saw them off to the side 3-4 seconds later. And a lot of that is due to the lackluster Demi-Spells too. As a result of these factors coalescing together, once I'm focusing on the fight, I start losing feedback from the rotation. Like, I get people saying that prior iterations sucked, but I at least can tell when I'm hardcasting Ruin III all the time and hear it go off, whereas the only time I even notice I'm pressing any of the new spells is because I picked the wrong Summon for the situation or literally stopped pressing the same button because I fell asleep from pressing it so much. It actually makes the experience worse by being so boring. I had to move to another job just because I knew it was going to be a problem (nevermind Avatars blocking your PoV in savage).

The only things the new iteration gets half right is the Avatar-related animations, and keeping pets still. Literally everything else sucks. The most actual enjoyment I get is from slapping Deathflare & Akh Morn together in a single GCD, and I was hoping to have more than three of those by now, not less.

None of those complaints touch what I liked about the prior iterations that frankly should have stayed to keep this one from falling apart, like it very, very clearly has, when you get down to the technical details. And most people won't, they'll just feel something's off or get bored, and that's how you kill a game, not just a job.

[Mansion]

Yes, badly. It's the 2nd worst-performing DPS in the game.

I feel like they didn't take account the damage old SMN does in the background (DoTs and pet auto attacks) with this rework.

There will always be low-performing DPS jobs compared to others, that's not a point in the current design. I'm repeating myself but as it stands, I don't think SMN shouldn't do much more DPS than Bard or Dancer, especially when balancing it with RDM (as BLM is a different type of job).
Sure difficulty might have some subjectivity to it, but I don't think SMN should hit as hard as RDM currently does when RDM isn't as mobile, and has more depth to its rotation and optimization than SMN (and RDM isn't that deep either, mind you). I don't think it'd be fair that in a Savage environment if an "easy" job would hit harder than a more complex job twhen both are played optimally. That actually was SMN's problem in 5.0, it was harder to optimize (due to clunky gameplay) and it performed poorly DPS-wise, before 5.1 addressed this issue (and it was the same early Sotrmblood too I think). I see people saying having an "easy" job outDPSing a "harder" job isn't an issue, I don't agree at all. Rewarding great DPS performance through overly-simple gameplay is a gateway to jobs getting more and more similar and easy with no flavour, identity or anything.

SMN should have tweaks in its rotation to get a higher skill ceiling that would justify a DPS buff in my opinion, which wouldn't be very complex to implement. Toning down the instant casts for Bahamut for instance. Making the SMN Primal choice according to the fight mechanics much more rewarding, introducing more micro-management (for aetherstacks and Ruin IV for instance). I see a lot of room for SMN to grow to keep it attractive and easy to understand and play casually, but offering more depth in end-game content.