Tank healing is to high

[Kalaam]

Possibly too yes, that's another way to rebalance it. Though that'd require a heavy buff on DRK mitigation

[ssunny2008]

This was tried in heavensward. It was not a good time.

Unless we're going to oblige leveling multiple tanks and having a strict two-tank meta for each fight, distinctly "magic" and "physical" tanks seem a bad idea.

Moreover, unless the style/class of mitigation actually changes how the tank plays... so what? Self-healing works rather differently, though would still need eHP increases elsewhere to even get an opportunity to self-heal after strong tankbusters, but blocks vs. barriers vs. evasion (assuming said evasion we're just the pure chance of "maybe I die, but maybe I be OP")?

It just has been an example and those minor differences from tank to tank are really not a thing to talk about. Pretty much any tank has the same cooldowns with the same timer and a bit of difference is "blockchance, magical defense, selfheal" and it´s all so hard homogenized in its potencies or use, that those differences are completely irrelevant. But nevertheless other games made it happen to bring up 3-4 different tanks or even healer classes which has been able to dispell categorized debuffs only and it worked.

It´s just a matter of content-building and actually brings more oppurtunities to the game. Just a standard example would look like "A boss switches randomly between magical and physical tankbusters.", so if you want to bring the best setup you pick those phys. and mag. tanks and they swap when they see the indicator for each instance. If you want to go a more safe variant, which hurts more of course, you might pick the life-tank and don´t tankswap so often or only at a 2nd flat damage tankbuster.

It´s a bunch of efford, but it would be even possible that the games checks your party like "Oh PLD and DRK combo.", so the game is going to adjust with its pierce-damage by itself and the players have to react on it.

There are a lot of possibilities to make such things happen. It´s just a lack of creativity and efford why this game is in the state it is. SE just needs to start to think out of the box.

(And btw a meta will exist anyway. But it doesn´t mean that anyone will jump on that train. Better variety and a sick meta than the borderness with homogenized stuff and everything 99,9% balanced. This is a PvE game, not PvP...)

EDIT: Just for evasiontanks... Those have always been great with add-bosses and aren´t even bad as MT too. Ofcourse they would never be so strong as a full armor-tank as MT and tankbusters needs to go through the evasion, but it would actually mix things up in kind of gameplay for both, tanks and healer. While a standard tank would drop with a permanent curve, an evasiontank could drop hard... or not! This would bring some variety into the healer gameplay, for sure.
As i´ve said, a matter of content-building and efford.

[Zordrage]

Damage is by and far the one thing that matters most in this game. Trading some of DRK's current damage for more mitigation/self-healing would in fact be a nerf in the eyes of the raiding community.

Yeah... thats why everyone is changing from DRk or outright avoid doing any serious content with it right ?

Majority of the Players don't care about the small Raiding comunity they just want to enjoy DRKs gameplay and thats realy bad atm mainly for 2 reasons Lack of selfsustain AND overall Boring Rotation.

No dmg is not the most important thing. Only Raid racers think that, they would scrafice half of the kits of all tanks and make them 100% unenjoyable and bad if it would mean they get 20% more damage.

Lets NOT balance the game arround that.

[AziraSyuren]

The margin of error is way too high for the DPS of any given job to matter that much. Even high-end raiders often play whatever they want. The world first for Eden's Promise had a Bard, for Christ's sake, which was the closest thing to a "so weak that it's a meme" job that the last expac had. The game is more balanced than it's ever been, perhaps even to a fault, so how a job feels to play really is more important than its output to just about every demographic.

[ssunny2008]

Yeah... thats why everyone is changing from DRk or outright avoid doing any serious content with it right ?

Majority of the Players don't care about the small Raiding comunity they just want to enjoy DRKs gameplay and thats realy bad atm mainly for 2 reasons Lack of selfsustain AND overall Boring Rotation.

What is this... a crusade to give DRK more selfsustain?

I´ve seen your own thread and if those "healer quit because of DRK" has been really a thing, have you ever considered, that you´re just not a good DRK since you claimed that they´ve struggled to healed you 2 times and then quitted for whatever reason? DRK isn´t better or worse than other tanks are, it still relies on the player behind it to use the tools correctly. WAR is the only one which is non stop broken AND have the worst rotation this game offers. It´s still often played and guess why? Because it´s the easiest tank to play but more than half tanks out there still don´t know what they´re doing.

Tanks are broken, no matter about which tank we´re talking.

No dmg is not the most important thing. Only Raid racers think that, they would scrafice half of the kits of all tanks and make them 100% unenjoyable and bad if it would mean they get 20% more damage.

Lets NOT balance the game arround that.

It´s all about damage... even healers are expected to spam 1 in 90% of the whole fight, because it´s about damage. If a healer have to cast his spells out of big pulls, then something is going completely wrong. Even casting in bigpulls is not a thing with a good tank. In casual content it´s "either you´ve damage or you stuck here half an hour" and in savage it´s "either you´ve damage or you wipe at the enrage".
Then damage income is laughable as much as invuled tankbusters are.

- Weak damage = adds / boss lives longer = more mechanics to play, higher chance to fail or you hit the enrage
- Strong damage = everything is killed fast = less mechanics to play, maybe even skip the hardest, you won´t hit the enrage

Damage is definately the most important thing in this game. Tanks have more defs than they´ll ever need, healers more healing tools than they need and DPS utility for reasons only god knows. And btw no serious tank is going to stack tenacity "because it´s about more than damage" unless it´s on the BIS for ultimate because caused by caps. I would be happy if the roles would fit their roles actually and materia made for them. Instead we´ve godlike tanks, green 1 button dps and real dps classes without any self-sustain and homogenization at its best.

[Atreides]

This was tried in heavensward. It was not a good time.

Oh yeah, that was around the time PLD were a liability because every hard hitting TB was magic damage and block didn't help against that. Fun times.

[Danelo]

What is this... a crusade to give DRK more selfsustain

Of course it is. Former DRK mains could be asking to take self-sustain away from other tanks if you’d prefer? Why do you insist on downplaying the credible concerns of other players? If nothing else, let the devs read it and decide.

When the devs and producer of the game say all content can and will be clearable by every tank why is “highest DPS tank” a thing. Who gives a flighting fuck when the job is NOT fun to play. Your highest DPS ability is a DOT that you have no control over - how incredibly boring is that? High DPS is not an identity, nor is it a reason to deprive DRK of BASELINE self-sustain tools.

[MagiusNecros]

I dunno man. WAR's incredible defenses, broke ass healing(Chaos enhanced attacks always crit heal too!!) for itself and an ally, frequent bursts, and immunity to knockbacks and a few annoying statuses under IR are too strong to be ignored.

Can't see why anyone would play another Tank this xpac.

Against the first raid fight the whole party wiped except for the Warrior, DRK and myself a Reaper and we cleared it from 30% to 0%. Warrior was healing better then any healer with just Flash.

[ssunny2008]

Of course it is. Former DRK mains could be asking to take self-sustain away from other tanks if you’d prefer? Why do you insist on downplaying the credible concerns of other players? If nothing else, let the devs read it and decide.

When the devs and producer of the game say all content can and will be clearable by every tank why is “highest DPS tank” a thing. Who gives a flighting fuck when the job is NOT fun to play. Your highest DPS ability is a DOT that you have no control over - how incredibly boring is that? High DPS is not an identity, nor is it a reason to deprive DRK of BASELINE self-sustain tools.

Such concerns are shallow and plagued by ignorance or just bad skill.

Any tank is broken since SHB and all of them has become it even more with EW. DRK is no exception. Only WAR outshines every 3 of them with his overheal even on a partymember combined with a completely braindead rotation. So a serious question would be, why should DRK become more self-sustain? Why don´t you play WAR instead if you prefer heals instead of barriers? Who knows...

SHB did a lot to class dumbdowns and overtunings everywhere. The road continues and so many ppl here are like "this is not enough, why is DRK not more like the other tanks, why does it has 2% more DPS, blablabla...
Just check out this video someone posted in the healer section and you know how busted the current state of the game is: https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1qL4y1J7Mh (1 EX primal, beware spoiler)
2 Tanks, 6 DPS, no heal, gg....

There is so many nonsense written down here and in the DPS forum, it´s incredible. Only healer-mains seem to be like "Give us something to do, stop the 1 button dumbdowns!".
I´m not saying everyone has no clue, but a lot of ppl show up like "this class has this, my class need it too" or "had a tank spinning a boss yesterday, please get ride of positionals" or in case of the preposter "healer left the instance yesterday, have to be a thing because i played DRK and he wasn´t able to heal me properly, DRK sucks".
Doesn´t seem correct to me that there are "so many issues" when thousands of players are able to do their job on given classes, especially when tanks are already busted and braindead af that you can solo-carry the whole game. And it might sound arrogant af, but if i´m able to run any tank in any content, doing the same stuff over and over again, surviving the biggest pulls possible, then tanks are balanced between each other in kind of self-sustain. I´ve carried different instances and solo 30% or more of bosses with WAR, PLD, DRK and GNB in the past, while GNB has actually been the difficulty one, not DRK.

Tanks are broken... and ppl should finally start to think about the consequences of their posts and may should accept that they´re not so good players who should judge about some kind of balancing. We´re at this state of homogenization and easy peasy run throughs because a bunch of players have always been like "Impossible, please buff, ühhhh 1% damage gap between tanks, etc..." I remember WAR being the lowest in dmg mid SHB without having a broken selfheal... and some ppl complained, so it got buffed and buffed and buffed again. WAR was unstoppable, now it´s godlike for no reason thx to complaints without any thoughts behind them ... in a game which doesn´t force anything anyway.

[ThorneDynasty]

Sorry but "this one tank should stay gimped because if all 4 are broken then the whole game will be!"? It already is - on top of one of the tanks feeling like crap to play. Two wrongs don't make a right and whatnot.