Tank healing is to high

[ZisuiGuts]

Honestly seeing how there are so many horrible healers out there now I’m glad tanks can sustain themselves. Now I’m not talking about the amazing healers we have so don’t come for me lol.

Playing through this expansion Omg I can’t tell you how many unnecessary deaths I’ve had and seen due to healers either just refusing to heal or just don’t know how to heal. I’m glad tanks can sustain themselves and others now. I’ve had some good tanks where the healer died and we killed the dungeon boss still. Yeah it might make the healer feel like crap but hey if you not gonna do your job then at least tanks can cover it to some extent.

I’m all for this tank sustainability. I hope SE doesn’t change it. Just my opinion.

I've found there's some great variety in healers, tbh. Some are solid enough, some good in their way, some great but a bit sloppy, and then there are those who probably watched some popular youtuber explaining "this is how you should heal" and let me die without healing me ONCE, not bloody once, when I've been tanking the boss for the past 30 seconds, steadily taking damage. And it happened again and again.

You can't please everyone, that's just facts, not even your own crowd when making games, especially when the crowd's big as in this game.
But I think it's simple: "you are healer" + "you lack challenge due to whatever (in this case tank not dying easily enough)" = "do harder content".

I've healed and tanked as Blue Mage my bit share, and that's a challenge even in normal mode encounters due to how disorienting it is, because there's not proper incentive to do that regularly enough, unlike with the regular job content (roulettes). If we had something like a BLU-only roulette, that might go long way for satisfying this hole for certain players.

Oh and notice the timing of this topic: early Endwalker. Of course, when there's little content that's both relevant AND challenging enough, just the ex trials and that's it.

[Pibz]

Honestly seeing how there are so many horrible healers out there now I’m glad tanks can sustain themselves. Now I’m not talking about the amazing healers we have so don’t come for me lol.

Playing through this expansion Omg I can’t tell you how many unnecessary deaths I’ve had and seen due to healers either just refusing to heal or just don’t know how to heal. I’m glad tanks can sustain themselves and others now. I’ve had some good tanks where the healer died and we killed the dungeon boss still. Yeah it might make the healer feel like crap but hey if you not gonna do your job then at least tanks can cover it to some extent.

I’m all for this tank sustainability. I hope SE doesn’t change it. Just my opinion.

ITS A FREAKING MULTIPLAYER GAME. YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DEPEND ON YOUR F***CKING TEAM/PARTY

[DanielNegreanu_Adamantoise]

ITS A FREAKING MULTIPLAYER GAME. YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DEPEND ON YOUR F***CKING TEAM/PARTY

Tanks despite being the best jobs in the game overall, are also stressful to play in dungeons. (By many, you get the hang of it and then you get hooked like me)
There’s really only 1 tank that you might consider self-heals too much and it’s really only 1 ability. And even then, if still nobody wants to tank, then it’s NOT too much.

The ff14 community want to be people-pleasing healbots more than they want to play tank.
That should tell you something about tanking.
Until more people are willing to put down the daggers and the staves and pick up a shield, then no tanks don’t self-heal too much

[AnotherPerson]

The ff14 community want to be people-pleasing healbots more than they want to play tank.

The healer forums will burn you to the ground if you tell them that - they have been advocating for letting enemies do more damage so they can do something outside of using their 1 SINGLE BUTTON for 90% of the fight and majority of their toolkit being rendered moot.

Most of them want to be Support - do damage AND heal, to be useful and contribute to the party. Not many want to be gimped DPS, or they wouldn't have played healer. They want to heal and be rewarded for healing, but they don't want to be healbots that heals for the sake of healing.

Tank survivability is a good thing - tanks get to have fun with tanking.
Healers not having anything to do but play 1 button DPS simulator - that's a bad thing. Majority of your healing toolkit is rendered moot. You're back to playing your DPS rotation from ARR. So much for having 4 expansions worth of healing skills.

At this point, healers pretty much accepted the fact that the devs will never increase outgoing damage without adjusting tank's self-sustain & survivability higher to compensate, but the devs still made the healing toolkit as if healers were the only ones who affected HP in a vacuum. That's where all the complaints are coming from. That's why we have a 100+ page thread in General Discussion about healers wanting more engagement outside of healing. -- And the easiest solution is to add more DPS skills, as DPS skills will always have a use.

And in the end, no matter how much devs adjust outgoing damage -- the problem is just how gear and combat is designed. Encounter Design is not made to have a lot of unavoidable damage to heal, they test each individual player's skill by making them resolve the mechanic or take a vulnerability debuff / die. Downtime will always be present even when it gets adjusted - and will only grow when players become more familiar with the duty and get better gear. That will never change.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

You're legit complaining about self-sustain in the lowest possible denominator of content...dungeons that means absolutely nothing apart from a means to get exp or get tomes as quick as possible, period. So what if tanks can recover a healer screwing up and saving a dungeon boss, "oh the humanity!" even though Paladin has been doing this for the last four years. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

you will need to wait until normal mode raids come out, or even more preferably Savage before you can even remotely get close to a baseline average to see how tanks are actually performing, as dungeon content is no way remotely close to a means to balancing jobs.

[Navnav]

You're legit complaining about self-sustain in the lowest possible denominator of content...dungeons that means absolutely nothing apart from a means to get exp or get tomes as quick as possible, period. So what if tanks can recover a healer screwing up and saving a dungeon boss, "oh the humanity!" even though Paladin has been doing this for the last four years. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

you will need to wait until normal mode raids come out, or even more preferably Savage before you can even remotely get close to a baseline average to see how tanks are actually performing, as dungeon content is no way remotely close to a means to balancing jobs.

Very true, this catman speaks truth.

[Ashua]

We can already see it with extremes. No point in waiting when non casual content shows

[Seku]

You're legit complaining about self-sustain in the lowest possible denominator of content...dungeons that mean absolutely nothing apart from a means to get exp or get tomes as quick as possible, period. So what if tanks can recover a healer screwing up and saving a dungeon boss, "oh the humanity!" even though Paladin has been doing this for the last four years. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

you will need to wait until normal mode raids come out, or even more preferably Savage before you can even remotely get close to a baseline average to see how tanks are actually performing, as dungeon content is no way remotely close to a means to balancing jobs.

Tanks have been able to pull through on normal mode raids too without healers in some instances. You're basically collecting tomes and gear drops from savage raids, which are then invalidated by crafting the next savage teir. With that said, I don't see your point other than the fact that dungeons are easy. Which SE could give into players asking for harder dungeons that could be meaningful content, thus changing up the meta. His on the other hand points out a larger issue in the fact that power creep is slowly starting to take over Tanks, which in some cases edges out an entire 3rd of the classes. 3dps + 1 tank runs aren't really new though, but the fact that these dungeons have probably been some of the easiest pulls in the history of the game speaks volumes.

With that said. OP MSQ dungeons are made to be solo dungeons as seen by the trusts and are a bad basis for how classes operate together. I am on the side though that healing and self-sustain should be cut down across the board and active mitigation and healing should be put back into the game. Wanting a tank to self-heal themselves in bursts without healer intervention is basically asking for a solo game further. Literally, we're just missing high DPS numbers.

With that said though, you shouldn't expect this and no amount of "not letting them off the hook" is going to change that, because the game is thriving with money. Or in short, they have their core base, and as long as that remains nothing will change as long as the general consensus doesn't. I wish you luck though on getting it to change however as I'd like to see a real MMO and not something that feels more akin to a single-player game with a co-op option.

[Kolsykol]

You're legit complaining about self-sustain in the lowest possible denominator of content...dungeons that means absolutely nothing apart from a means to get exp or get tomes as quick as possible, period. So what if tanks can recover a healer screwing up and saving a dungeon boss, "oh the humanity!" even though Paladin has been doing this for the last four years. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

you will need to wait until normal mode raids come out, or even more preferably Savage before you can even remotely get close to a baseline average to see how tanks are actually performing, as dungeon content is no way remotely close to a means to balancing jobs.

This is honestly a pretty bizarre take.
What are the implications here exactly, that Healers should just be completely irrelevant outside of Savage?
By that same logic lets just erase the tank role too and make all dps tanky or nerf the damage of mobs in dungeons.

Healers shouldn't be essentially irrelevant in 99% of the content in the game.
Savage is a very small part of the game.

It's definitely too over the top I've seen WAR's in particular solo bosses in the lvl 90 dungeons.
That's not right, it shouldn't be a thing.
People need to have some perspective here and not solely look at it from the lens of a tank/ WAR player.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

This is honestly a pretty bizarre take.
What are the implications here exactly, that Healers should just be completely irrelevant outside of Savage?
By that same logic lets just erase the tank role too and make all dps tanky or nerf the damage of mobs in dungeons.

Healers shouldn't be essentially irrelevant in 99% of the content in the game.
Savage is a very small part of the game.

It's definitely too over the top I've seen WAR's in particular solo bosses in the lvl 90 dungeons.
That's not right, it shouldn't be a thing.
People need to have some perspective here and not solely look at it from the lens of a tank/ WAR player.

So I never once mention healers being irrelevant, that is you inferring and making my comment into something other than what is clearly written by myself. The only thing I referring to being irrelevant was dungeons past farming exp and tomes, that's all they are good for.

My only addressing of Savage is that it is the only true method of testing jobs, since that's where you need some degree of co-ordination from all roles making use of they toolkit at some degree of competency. In this competency you will see how well tanks and healers can perform, as dungeons you can toss cooldowns and oGCDs anywhere and still get by fine.

Sure WAR is a bit strong on the self-sustain, I won't deny that, but using the soloing of a level 90 dungeon boss is a crap measure due to the fact that I have solo'd both level 70 and 80 bosses as Paladin. Point is kinda moot.