Endwalker was "meh" (for reasons other than technical issues)

[Theodric]

Yeah, Garlemald is clearly primarily a blend of Roman and Russian influence...but is ultimately a fictional creation.

[KizuyaKatogami]

As someone’s whose played the story since ARR and has been an active lore enthusiast, i’d give the story a solidddd…4/10? Purely because the beginning portions of the game are very well done meaning Garlemald and both Thavnair visits. The zones and music are all amazing but the story in which most of the games budget has went into just wasn’t worth all this wait and delay. Once you get to the moon it starts to become a mess, it becomes an even bigger mess once you get to the ending portions of elpis, and everything after that is just….disappointing to say the least. So much wasted potential on so many things, no consequences or stakes for the main cast, the threat of the final days only really being shown properly in thavnair, despite the trailer depicting the entire map as being on fire only 2 zones end up actually getting the final days, not to mention the convenience of all the towers just up and disappearing. No lunar primals whatsoever etc etc. All i can say is this expansion is the best example of wasted potential for so many plot points from the body snatch scene to zodiark etc etc.

[LaylaTsarra]

I loved the story. Was better than I expected after following Shadowbringers which was really good. 10/10

[SeverianLyonesse]

Yeah, Garlemald is clearly primarily a blend of Roman and Russian influence...but is ultimately a fictional creation.

Yeah I always thought it was Rome/Russia/Germany and maybe sprinklings of the U.S. But now that I'm actually analyzing that assumption the only kinda Germanthings about them is the "iron cross" flag and some tinges of Aryan exceptionalism. The Russian and Roman influences are much more evident. Definitely my favorite fictional empire in the series, very well-realized.

[Kozh]

I think the peak/climax experience for me is elpis. Literally cried watching the cutscene after lv 87 dungeon. After that, I started losing enjoyment from the story. It is still a wild ride till the end, don't get me wrong. But rather than enjoying the writing, I was more focused on the plot idea itself (idk if this even make sense, sorry).

I was rushing through the second part of labyrinthos and last zone because I just want to see ending. This has never happened to me before since I start playing. Usually I will take time to savor the story. Just this one time it's not. Not sure if it's actually a good thing or not

The only redeeming part of last zone is, for me: 1) seeing emet and hythlodaeus again, 2) when we let meteion see our feelings, and 3) the stair part I guess? In that order. Couldn't care less about Zenos, but the scene after the fight is beautiful.

[Lauront]

Yeah I always thought it was Rome/Russia/Germany and maybe sprinklings of the U.S. But now that I'm actually analyzing that assumption the only kinda Germanthings about them is the "iron cross" flag and some tinges of Aryan exceptionalism. The Russian and Roman influences are much more evident. Definitely my favorite fictional empire in the series, very well-realized.

If I had to say they were taking something from Germany, the MSQ and thinking involved seemed to be in the direction of avoiding a Versailles Treaty scenario with Garlemald, as their stance towards their neighbours - even those nominally bearing gifts - was one forged through a very bitter history of conflict, and so to many death would be preferable than humiliation for cynical liberator nations they scarcely saw as any better than themselves. That's the cycle that the Scions resolved to break. I really enjoyed the Garlemald section and how it expanded on why the Garleans revered Varis and Solus as they did. I'll post my overall thoughts on the MSQ later but I'm wondering if the reason Yoshi said we'd feel weird about a Garlean reconstruction is because their true homeland is in Locus Amoenus.

[Tsukino]

I think the Final Days were also underused. It affected two zones and…that was it. I really would have liked to have seen it in all the zones. Kind of like the Everlasting Light, and maybe it gets extinguished after we succeed in Ultima Thule. But, nope. It was kind of one-two-done thing. Disappointing. The writers even threw in two scenes of people being affected in Ala Mhigo and Ishgard by the despair that turns them into blasphemies….and then nothing became of that. It wasn’t mentioned or revisited. It felt almost as if something was planned for the other regions/city-states, and then cut.

Do the role quests, they follow up on this happening in both of those places as well as Limsa Lominsa, Gridania, and Doma. I totally disagree with everyone saying the "Final Days" weren't there for long enough though, when we had one of only six dungeons devoted to it (two would have been horrible, especially considering we already did Amaurot) and the part that I thought dragged on the second most (next to Labyrinthos) in Thavnair chasing Matsya around for like an hour. It more than served its purpose of saying "it's going down right now, so make some decisions" in the scheme of the story.

Though, I was also disappointed that Zodiark mostly ended up being a chump after we spent so much time building him up as this Big Bad. Just another disappointment and lost potential in the story.

I also don't get this one at all. Zodiark is only half complete. All the ascians who really cared about bringing him back and were capable of doing so are already gone. Fandaniel's entire plan is to have Zodiark be destroyed to resume the calamity. None of this leads to Zodiark as the final boss; that ship sailed during Shadowbringers quite obviously.


I mostly agree with the rest that I didn't quote though. Pacing wasn't any worse than any of the other expansions (why does no one remember how awful the miners in Shadowbringers were, at the exact same point in the story as Labyrinthos no less?) but it's definitely not ideal either. Zenos sucks and contributes nothing to the story as usual. I don't hate the Scions' sacrifice scenes for the same reason as everyone else, but it definitely feels like they've gone through all the development they need and those scenes makes it obvious. And yeah, their sense of comedic timing overall is not great, though it did make a Hythlodaeus line particularly funny by accident; I'd prefer if they just kept that stuff to big side stories like Hildebrand/Gilgamesh/etc.

Heavensward sucked though, I will never understand how anyone rates it higher than anything.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Snip.

The role quests, at least the healer one just has a few final days monsters show up but that’s it. No red skies, nothing causing actual destruction. As for Zodiark, it’s the fact of the story decision they chose to make. They chose to make him tied to holding the final days and Meteion back, and instead of him being controlled to undo that, they instead just killed him off, and then 10 minutes later we’re having dress up time with the rabbits. They have given Hydaelyn and Venat the spotlight numerous times, Venat even getting her own story arc in Elpis, yet Elidibus and Zodiark get completely shafted with little more than 10 minute cameos. So much for the Hydaelyn AND Zodiark arc. Seems more like the Hydaelyn and Meteion arc lmao. As for the pacing, i will argue to the death that Endwalker’s pacing is the worst we’ve ever seen. Especially when there’s a literal apocalypse going on and they choose to have us have lunch with the scions at the time. The amount of eating with scions scenes in general is….cringy to say the least. Honestly i didn’t notice much development for most of the scions. Yshtola did hardly anything the entire expansion, Urianger overcame his grief for moenbryda i guess? The twins got some garlean insight and made up with their dad which everyone saw coming. Thancred….don’t really know what he got development wise honestly. Same with Krile and i still don’t understand why tataru is on the expansion poster.

[Tsukino]

The role quests, at least the healer one just has a few final days monsters show up but that’s it. No red skies, nothing causing actual destruction. As for Zodiark, it’s the fact of the story decision they chose to make. They chose to make him tied to holding the final days and Meteion back, and instead of him being controlled to undo that, they instead just killed him off, and then 10 minutes later we’re having dress up time with the rabbits. They have given Hydaelyn and Venat the spotlight numerous times, Venat even getting her own story arc in Elpis, yet Elidibus and Zodiark get completely shafted with little more than 10 minute cameos. So much for the Hydaelyn AND Zodiark arc. Seems more like the Hydaelyn and Meteion arc lmao.

That was a Shadowbringers decision though, not an Endwalker one. There was no chance of Zodiark being the big bad by the time we started here. I didn't think about not getting enough back story with Elidibus though, and that is interesting - maybe the Pandæmonium story will make up for this starting tomorrow.

I would tend to agree with the Scions being way too present despite already being done with character development, but I'm also hopeful that the ending means we won't have to have all nine of them around to comment on every story development every single time from here on out.

[KizuyaKatogami]

That was a Shadowbringers decision though, not an Endwalker one. There was no chance of Zodiark being the big bad by the time we started here. I didn't think about not getting enough back story with Elidibus though, and that is interesting - maybe the Pandæmonium story will make up for this starting tomorrow.

I would tend to agree with the Scions being way too present despite already being done with character development, but I'm also hopeful that the ending means we won't have to have all nine of them around to comment on every story development every single time from here on out.

It wasn’t really a shadowbringers decision though. They decided this expansion to have Fandaniel control Zodiark and just immediately rush us to be killed off. They easily could’ve written a way where instead of having Zodiark killed, someone else takes control of it and undoes the laws he put in place blocking Meteion. It screams incredibly rushed action to get rid of a major character because we don’t know what else to do. Like the fact he’s been built up since 1.0 just to be killed off in the span of 10 minutes while we have to sit through hours of venat and hydaelyn preaching is incredibly unbalanced.And yes Elidibus could be in Pandaemonium but at that point its like why bother. They shafted him in favor of Venat and Emet, gave Emet basically his entire role in the story so he serves little purpose. It's hwy i hate that they just handed the story over to Ishikawa because she just shafted characters that have been built up numerous expansions just so her personal favorites can shine, and it shows heavily in the story.