Content Finder

[Sylvari]

Wrong. People do what they feel they need to in order to compete. That is how people think. Create a free-for-all, and people take the easiest road, which is not necessarily the best for the entire group. Just because people want something does not mean they should be allowed to have it.

That is true.

See, this attitude is the very kind that I wish would stay in WoW and not begin to infect FFXIV. We don't need things that are going to make it easy for this sort of thinking and behavior to spread around and be rewarded.

No offense but i really feel like your coming off with a stronger attitude than he is, and to be perfectly honest these forums are here for us to debate our views and opinions so SE can make decisions based on feed back.

Also, if you are having trouble getting help from your LS, maybe you should join another. We're allowed to be a member of eight, so it's not like you can't try to find another that contains people who are interested in doing what you want. Just like in FFXI, people had an LS for each kind of activity they wanted to engage in, and now you can see the chatter of all of them at once. If that doesn't work, wait for the merge and learn to be content with what you do have.

I agree, If your friends don't wanna get up and go then make new friends that will.

Loot systems do not make up an entire encounter. If you think they do, then that is yet another example I shall point to as to the wrong-headed thinking that will destroy this game. "It's all about me and my loot, screw everyone else!" Yeah, no thanks. I'll be over here simply trying to have fun with other people in my community, working together to accomplish similar goals and helping them with whatever I can...because that is what I believe should be at the core of a game like this, and nothing else. Feel free to have a different opinion, but I want nothing to do with it.

I believe a bad loot system can really ruin a game, So the encounter is about risk and reward. A bad loot system is like getting kick in the butt for a job well done. In bold, I actually like that view, ppl should learn to work together when they have similar goals but just because someone has different views or opinion's doesn't mean they ain't valid.

If Blizzard is capable of adding and removing features each patch, then SE can do it before a new client is released. It's not that difficult. Stop trying to discourage those who actually want an environment that isn't full of sociopathic jerks who do nothing but try to clamor over each other for the next best piece of gear, like people at Walmart do on Black Friday.

Although with the current client it does seem hard for them to do things i do believe with 2.0 they will be able to change how things work if they so desire. Also every MMO has you rampaging and rushing to have the best gear every patch or expansion that has upgrades, That is the essence that keeps a MMO going, Some come for the story but others like the reward and trying to be the best.

[Jinko]

Also every MMO has you rampaging and rushing to have the best gear every patch or expansion that has upgrades, That is the essence that keeps a MMO going, Some come for the story but others like the reward and trying to be the best.

Quoted for truth.

Gear and progression is what keeps people playing MMO's, when moogle and Ifrit were added people couldn't wait to get their hand on the newest items.

Just as they will with the new job specific gear, its the way these games are made, pretending WoW is the evil demon of MMO is kind of silly when LOOT!! is the foundation the genre is built upon.

[Sylvari]

I did it months ago, I said people in my LS wanted to do it, yes I'm willing to help them, my LS is awesome for what its worth.

The problem at the moment is that hardly anyone is playing, not just in my LS but across the board, which makes content like DH difficult to do.

1. Because people are not motivated to do it due to the drops being useless since the addition of Materia.
2. Not enough people playing to make up a decent party.

Both of which can be circumvented with a content finder.

This is a very logical view and the fact of the matter, at the current point in time there is little activity going on with quite a few of the servers, and again the lack of motivation is purely based on the reward, because the reward isn't enticing enough ppl wont just go rushing to join in. A broken loot system, A lack of or bad reward or even a lack of activity can really make things hard or not fun at all. A lot of ppl said that level sync ruined FFXI, but that's what an elitist is, Someone that's ignorant. The level sync system really fixed a problem that FFXI had by making it easier to make a group. To summarize, Don't knock it till you try it, And let the professionals weigh the risks.

[fusional]

Games that do that tend to have higher incidences of player aggression and antisocial behavior.

can you cite references or provide data to back this claim?

i played wow for several years between xi and xiv, and i had to deal with more immature douches and awful players before the dungeon finder tool than after it. however, i wouldn't go as far as to say everyone had the same experiences as me (especially considering i'm an elitist and we tend to have different views on things than most players), and even if i tried it would be futile because i have no proof to back up my claim. i only have anecdotal evidence.

my point is simply that your comment seems to also be anecdotal evidence.

[Sylvari]

can you cite references or provide data to back this claim?

I think he/she is just confusing fact an opinion, Happens a lot.

[Rousseau]

I did it months ago, I said people in my LS wanted to do it, yes I'm willing to help them, my LS is awesome for what its worth.

The problem at the moment is that hardly anyone is playing, not just in my LS but across the board, which makes content like DH difficult to do.

1. Because people are not motivated to do it due to the drops being useless since the addition of Materia.
2. Not enough people playing to make up a decent party.

Both of which can be circumvented with a content finder.

For starters, people should run content because they enjoy it and the company they play with. It is a foreign idea to me to play a game simply to get gear. Yeah, it's nice, but it's not a big deal, especially if it's not necessary.

Second, I never said that a content finder should not happen at all, but rather that it should not be like WoW's and should be handled very delicately. I am unsure if the worldess system is a good idea, since it breaks down reliance on the local community, which is necessary in order to foster proper and meaningful social experience.

But yea you go ahead and pick out the negative points in my post, we don't want people like me playing FFXIV.. "go play wow!!"

If you already think your comment was negative, and not what you think is best from your own perspective, then why did you leave it? I simply don't agree with you and I don't like your tone, and it worries me if you are/were on board with the way WoW works, since I believe strongly that it is inherently flawed.

Whether you believe my reasoning or not, I have been disaffected with WoW since the content finder went live in Wrath, and I hardly ever use the damn thing. I'd rather miss out on the content than deal with the people in there, and it eventually occurred to me that there was no reason to log in often if I couldn't see myself enjoying anything other than questing and the occasional raid with my guild (the latter of which stopped being fun a while ago, due to the nature of WoW's raids and the new raid finder). I started playing FFXIV for a specific reason, because it has an overall better social atmosphere. The last thing I want is to see that ruined.

[fusional]

tl;dr
Content Finder won't obsolete Linkshells or Free Company's
We still need good groups for challenging content & friends.
Will help stop the boring AFK in town.
Great for Casuals & anyone looking to just play (esp. to learn content).
Similar to telling people they don't HAVE to PL to 50, we don't have to queue up
We have an Open World. Instances aren't the entire game.
Complain if the devs make the entire RELEVANT endgame only this.
This won't be until after 2.0, check back later.

yes, this. exactly this.

[Choyi]

Ah, what a wonderful way to begin...



Wrong. People do what they feel they need to in order to compete. That is how people think. Create a free-for-all, and people take the easiest road, which is not necessarily the best for the entire group. Just because people want something does not mean they should be allowed to have it.



See, this attitude is the very kind that I wish would stay in WoW and not begin to infect FFXIV. We don't need things that are going to make it easy for this sort of thinking and behavior to spread around and be rewarded.

Also, if you are having trouble getting help from your LS, maybe you should join another. We're allowed to be a member of eight, so it's not like you can't try to find another that contains people who are interested in doing what you want. Just like in FFXI, people had an LS for each kind of activity they wanted to engage in, and now you can see the chatter of all of them at once. If that doesn't work, wait for the merge and learn to be content with what you do have.



Loot systems do not make up an entire encounter. If you think they do, then that is yet another example I shall point to as to the wrong-headed thinking that will destroy this game. "It's all about me and my loot, screw everyone else!" Yeah, no thanks. I'll be over here simply trying to have fun with other people in my community, working together to accomplish similar goals and helping them with whatever I can...because that is what I believe should be at the core of a game like this, and nothing else. Feel free to have a different opinion, but I want nothing to do with it.



If Blizzard is capable of adding and removing features each patch, then SE can do it before a new client is released. It's not that difficult. Stop trying to discourage those who actually want an environment that isn't full of sociopathic jerks who do nothing but try to clamor over each other for the next best piece of gear, like people at Walmart do on Black Friday.



Yoshi-P has already started to talk about it, hence why I brought it up. I think it's better to discuss and consolidate suggestions now, rather than wait until it's completely finished.

My quote was directed towards Yoshi-P not towards this thread, sorry for the misunderstanding : >
Most new big MMO(swotor for example) seems to first estimate if a finder system is neccessary rather then having one planned from day one (2.0 release I will refer to as launch)

[Rousseau]

Quoted for truth.

Gear and progression is what keeps people playing MMO's, when moogle and Ifrit were added people couldn't wait to get their hand on the newest items.

Just as they will with the new job specific gear, its the way these games are made, pretending WoW is the evil demon of MMO is kind of silly when LOOT!! is the foundation the genre is built upon.

I just have to disagree with that. It's hard to have a game without loot, but the RPG genre is based on story, and an online game is about playing with other people. Loot is just an extra carrot to dangle from the end of the stick, but it is by far the defining principle of a MMO.

can you cite references or provide data to back this claim?

I'm not quoting it as fact. Call it anecdotal, rhetorical, or observational. It is my opinion from both the experiences I have had and the shared experiences of the WoW community. I am far from alone in this view, so I believe that gives it enough weight to warrant consideration. You are, as always, free to disregard whatever you do not agree with.

[Jinko]

I simply don't agree with you and I don't like your tone, and it worries me if you are/were on board with the way WoW works, since I believe strongly that it is inherently flawed.

Don't fret I am but one person (as are you) we don't have the power to change things on our own, hence why we have these forums.

I just have to disagree with that. It's hard to have a game without loot, but the RPG genre is based on story, and an online game is about playing with other people. Loot is just an extra carrot to dangle from the end of the stick, but it is by far the defining principle of a MMO.

The offline RPG genre is based on story, the online one is based on working together to complete content (normally in the form of slaying a particular monster or conquering a specific dungeon) and getting rewarded for doing so.

Humans are naturally greedy so yes loot generally becomes the bane of the experience but that's just the way we are.

Ninja looting and rude players are not inherent to just WoW ya know.