So the grace that SE earned from giving away 7 free days expires today...

[Kes13a]

yes? what's the point of your posts other than adding to your post count? the poster both of you quoted posted that to prove the troll wrong, who said they have no problems logging in, probably because they're a NEET and start to play in the morning and not during 'normal' gaming hours

my point was, I was agreeing with them since, in case you were too busy coming up with an insult, I am on Zalera too, I had also just tried to log in and had a 2700ish queue. I just logged in a couple minutes ago (3 am Pacific) and it was a 6 person queue. . when they posted that was about 6 pm PST, so hardly first thing in the morning, I waited just like everyone else does to get in.

whats the point of your post? need x number of insults a day to feel good about yourself? it was a 2 for 1 deal?

[Rinhi]

my point was, I was agreeing with them since, in case you were too busy coming up with an insult, I am on Zalera too, I had also just tried to log in and had a 2700ish queue. I just logged in a couple minutes ago (3 am Pacific) and it was a 6 person queue. . when they posted that was about 6 pm PST, so hardly first thing in the morning, I waited just like everyone else does to get in.

whats the point of your post? need x number of insults a day to feel good about yourself? it was a 2 for 1 deal?

what insult, exactly? calling tanis a NEET? considering they have no queue problems on zalera, they must be playing during times where the average human is working
like seriously, where do you see me insulting you or seraphor? where is the insult in my post?

I have an alt on zalera and had multiple 3k queues as well, that's why I made my post because to me, it looked like both of you were attacking the poster for a factual observation as if it was wrong to post that

[Cyanyde]

<snip>

I do understand the reasoning you're giving, but it does beggar one simple question.

Why didn't they just ensure they have adequate provision put in place long before all of this. If their projection says they expect, say, 10k players per server, simple logic would dictate they should provision for 50% extra in case of extra load at the very start. But they don't. They just make sure they can cover those 10k, and for what reason? Profit margin.
The data analysis is largely irrelevant, and again is simply there to give a justification for cost cutting, i.e "We predicted X amount, but gained Y amount, and until we can measure the volume over time and the reasons why, we cannot ascertain a viable solution until then".
They had the option over the years to have back up provisions in place, and help mitigate any issues like this, but the publisher just wanted to maximise profit This isn't a new game after all, but one that has been around for nearly a decade. You can dress it up all you like, and try to argue otherwise, but that is basically what it boils down to.

You are excusing bare minimum business practice, which is sadly standard across many industries, and again, sadly, consumers make reasons to justify the logic. End of the day, Square Enix did expect a large influx of players. As you say, they analysed the metrics, and their own data would have shown a huge increase of streaming, and chatter about the new expansion. They also heavily promoted the game, utilising varying media, and also celebrities to push it, knowing full well they will received a lot of goodwill from a playerbase desperate to defend it, simply to "get away with it". We have seen this behaviour repeated more and more over the last 5 years by big companies, heck, even the absolute mess that is Cyberpunk 2077, and the recent GTA Trilogy has had people come out defending them (and no, am not comparing this to them in that state, they aren't even close, but just showing the strange mentality people have)

It is asinine. Honestly, and just baffles me people repeatedly find a rationale to defend it.

But ah well, you have your view, I have mine, and tbh, any discussion would just turn into an argument as neither would be able to "convince" the other, so I hope you have a lovely day and enjoy the game!

[Kes13a]

what insult, exactly? calling tanis a NEET? considering they have no queue problems on zalera, they must be playing during times where the average human is working
like seriously, where do you see me insulting you or seraphor? where is the insult in my post?

I have an alt on zalera and had multiple 3k queues as well, that's why I made my post because to me, it looked like both of you were attacking the poster for a factual observation as if it was wrong to post that

first off, my sincere apologies. I had no idea what a NEET is so assumed it was the latest cool kid slur. I am sorry for assuming that.
second, I wasnt, I have technically had no problems. queue yes, error yes, but nothing unexpected. my queue size varies through the day, like I said previously, at 3 am it was 6 people. never seen it that low even prior to EW, usually its about 32...
third, I dont think anyones login experience is invalid, some people have more issues than others. hopefully the maintenance they just did alleviates some of that

so, again, my apologies, it was my cluelessness that caused me to think that.

[Rinhi]

first off, my sincere apologies. I had no idea what a NEET is so assumed it was the latest cool kid slur. I am sorry for assuming that.
second, I wasnt, I have technically had no problems. queue yes, error yes, but nothing unexpected. my queue size varies through the day, like I said previously, at 3 am it was 6 people. never seen it that low even prior to EW, usually its about 32...
third, I dont think anyones login experience is invalid, some people have more issues than others. hopefully the maintenance they just did alleviates some of that

so, again, my apologies, it was my cluelessness that caused me to think that.

I apologize for my post possibly coming across as being insulting to you or seraphor, it really wasn't my intention!
I mean, the zalera queues are still wayyy smaller than excalibur ones, which are usually between 4k to 7k for me and friends, with zalera usually between 2k to 3k during the same time, but this is obviously during primetime, so yeah, sadly expected
I didn't say you meant to invalidate others experience, it just came across as that for me and I'm kinda biased considering I'm basically stuck in queues until it's time to sleep, though I did manage to thankfully finish EW during the first few days when the queues were faster (and I had time :P)

[Lanadra]

I shall never understand the constant defending of computer game companies for launching things that are basically unplayable for a large group, because they just don't want to invest in the infrastructure to prevent it.
You are basically defending multi-million dollar companies, unwilling to invest in their product beyond the bare minimum required to keep it running, because of some bizarre mentality of support mixed with, dare I say it, some form of Stockholm Syndrome. Always arguing that "...it will get better over time" or "It's your fault for choosing to play at X time" or "the queues aren't that bad, stop whining" etc.

They don't care about you. They aren't your buddy or friend. They are simply producing something to make profit, and people act like either wanting a refund for not being able to utilise a service they are paying for when they want to is somehow a personal attack on themselves and their favoured beloved company, so they simply must defend it.

It is beyond asinine, and almost weirdly unique to the gaming industry. No other industry would ever really get away with this, and blame is placed on the individuals for "moaning", "choosing a busy server", "not playing at the right time", or hundreds of other bizarre explanations, rather than just asking "Why did the company not prepare better beyond the minimum effort required?", which time and time again, these companies do.


It is beyond hilarious.



(...and now someone will reply to this mocking me, or acting is if I am some kind of "Karen" for raising a basic consumer rights issue, which is beyond hilarious, with all honesty.)

I'm not going to mock you, so sorry to disappoint, but I am going to tell you what I told others who seem to think we're all supposed to be some sort of 'anti corporation hive mind':

I'll say what I've already said plenty often these last 6 days: People are allowed to disagree with you. People are allowed to have a different opinion on something. They don't have to agree with you just because we're all customers in the same boat, especially not when more often than not the people being angry about this are coming off horribly in their posts, with astronomically bad takes and usually a stand-offish attitude from the start.

What I really don't get is why it seems so inconceivable to you and others like you that other people might actually disagree. You do realize it is possible to critique a company without joining the anti-corporation cult, right? Ergo, it is possible to look at a situation and conclude 'yeah this one was out of their hands', that is why so many are disagreeing with the angry crowd, because we look at everything going on right now and draw a different conclusion.

first off, my sincere apologies. I had no idea what a NEET is so assumed it was the latest cool kid slur. I am sorry for assuming that.

'Not in Education, Employment or Training' is what NEET stands for, it means you're sitting at home, not engaged in any sort of obligations that most adults have. It actually isn't 'the latest cool kid slur', it's been used for a long time.

[Cyanyde]

I'm not going to mock you, so sorry to disappoint, but I am going to tell you what I told others who seem to think we're all supposed to be some sort of 'anti corporation hive mind':

People can disagree, sure, that is their right. But there *is* a cult that seems to form around certain companies, and this mislead belief that they are somehow "on your side" and such. Wanting to have them honour your basic consumer rights doesn't somehow diminish your love for a company.

And for the record, this isn't me hating the developers of this game, they always succeed over and above, and always manage to try to figure out a response to any issues that may and do occur. My "anger" (which is far too strong a word, if anything) is more aimed at the publishers consistently taking shortcuts to maximise their profit ratio to a point where it begins to affect consumer satisfaction.

Simple truth is, Square Enix metrics would have shown a lot of buzz around the new expansion launch. They had ample time to put more infrastructure in place (heck, they should have done so years ago, with all honesty), yet they didn't, and people are as always, agreeing with whatever rationale they give, when it simply boils down to "We just didn't want to pay money for something back then because it wasn't an issue at that time, and we would have struggled to justify the increased cost to investors, who just wanted a nicer profit margin".
It was never out of their hands, they just chose to wait until the last minute before dealing with this scenario. That is basically it.


But as you said, people have differing views, and honestly, no sense getting worked up over a company that doesn't even know we exist beyond a payment. So I wish you a nice day, and hope you enjoy the game!

[ZelrothDenathrius]

The situation is very bad. We literally payed for a product and we cant access it.

I think the expansion should have been delayed, they knew that their servers couldnt handle so much people, and yet they decided to release it anyway. I would have been ok with that to be honest, i would have prefered for the expansion to be delayed, instead of this fucked up queues.

[Cyanyde]

The situation is very bad. We literally payed for a product and we cant access it.

I think the expansion should have been delayed, they knew that their servers couldnt handle so much people, and yet they decided to release it anyway. I would have been ok with that to be honest, i would have prefered for the expansion to be delayed, instead of this fucked up queues.

To be fair, it isn't the developers fault. They produced a game that is finished, is very good, and has been enjoyed by most all right now.
It is simply Square Enix who knew the hype was coming, helped push it, helped finance the hype (heck, they even had multiple music videos released to help promote the game...), yet took very little action in creating a better infrastructure to help with the inevitable new load. The increased player count hasn't just happened from this expansion, but has been steadily increasing since other MMOs have started to diminish, and lose players.

As I said a few times, this isn't a developer fault, but the publisher ultimately just cheaping out, and not wanting to pay for anything until necessary. They have kind of known for a year this might be a big deal, and haven't really taken action.

But people will disagree, as per the norm, and is their right. So if you do feel frustrated, you have the right to refund the expansion and purchase it again whenever you feel like. Which for many, might be the better option

Anyways, have a lovely day!

[Lanadra]

People can disagree, sure, that is their right. But there *is* a cult that seems to form around certain companies, and this mislead belief that they are somehow "on your side" and such. Wanting to have them honour your basic consumer rights doesn't somehow diminish your love for a company.

And for the record, this isn't me hating the developers of this game, they always succeed over and above, and always manage to try to figure out a response to any issues that may and do occur. My "anger" (which is far too strong a word, if anything) is more aimed at the publishers consistently taking shortcuts to maximise their profit ratio to a point where it begins to affect consumer satisfaction.

Simple truth is, Square Enix metrics would have shown a lot of buzz around the new expansion launch. They had ample time to put more infrastructure in place (heck, they should have done so years ago, with all honesty), yet they didn't, and people are as always, agreeing with whatever rationale they give, when it simply boils down to "We just didn't want to pay money for something back then because it wasn't an issue at that time, and we would have struggled to justify the increased cost to investors, who just wanted a nicer profit margin".
It was never out of their hands, they just chose to wait until the last minute before dealing with this scenario. That is basically it.


But as you said, people have differing views, and honestly, no sense getting worked up over a company that doesn't even know we exist beyond a payment. So I wish you a nice day, and hope you enjoy the game!

Square itself generally makes bad calls, look at Marvel's Avengers or for something older, Deus EX Mankind Divided. Publisher will be publisher and I definitely think they could have probably prevented plenty of problem situations, be it XIV or not. I sincerely believe XIV does well because Square largely keeps hands off and leaves it to the man who saved the dumpster fire called 1.0, Yoshi P, rather than try to meddle with everything.

I still disagree on the 'They had ample time to put more infrastructure in place', if by that time you mean anywhere in the last year or so.. no. We got something called a pandemic and a chip shortage going on. With Yoshi P having even stated that all of their attempts to acquire additional hardware, 'more infrastructure' as you said, failed, even with them being willing to pay well above market price.

Yes, they saw the massive player influx back in June/July, especially coming along with Asmongold.. but as I just said, even with all hands on deck they were not able to get what they need, and they knew that there was going to be problems as a result.. that's why they warned us well in advance.. because there really wasn't anything more they could do to prevent it from happening.