New summoner is unacceptable

[aveyond-dreams]

Maybe, but one version had 8 years of history and solid fan base who feel betrayed by this redesign. It would be like me to ask that a job I don't play be completely redesign to my whims, and to hell with the people that currently enjoy it. I think your argument would have held up better with 2.0 when all jobs were new and fresh, were nobody had in vested ties to it.

If you were heavily invested in a poison mage with summons tacked on then Summoner was never the class for you to begin with. 8 years of history in this game where many regarded it as the worst Summoner in all of Final Fantasy is nothing to 20+ years of games where Summoners have a focus on Summon Magic.

I agree that a betrayal happened but it happened 8 years ago when they decided to twist Summoner into a WoW Warlock clone that ultimately failed. It even had "demons" in its description for goodness sake.

[Melorie]

If you were heavily invested in a poison mage with summons tacked on then Summoner was never the class for you to begin with. 8 years of history in this game where many regarded it as the worst Summoner in all of Final Fantasy is nothing to 20+ years of games where Summoners have a focus on Summon Magic.

Doesn't really matter what "summoner" means to you though, if it wasn't a real summoner or if you find it too similar to other class in another game, it was a class that a lot of people enjoyed and stayed in the game for years and people are allowed to have opinions regarding it. Dancer is nothing like the dancer from FFT and that doesn't mean that it doesn't belong in this game and people aren't allowed to like it.

Besides, this argument isn't very strong imo since again a lot of the "summoner" crisis was mostly aesthetic. They could fix the aesthetic part without compromising other forms of gameplay or even proposing a gameplay that might feel more on the middle ground while keeping whatever identity they wanted for summoner through aesthetic.

[Chocobits]

Doesn't really matter what "summoner" means to you though, if it wasn't a real summoner or if you find it too similar to other class in another game, it was a class that a lot of people enjoyed and stayed in the game for years and people are allowed to have opinions regarding it. Dancer is nothing like the dancer from FFT and that doesn't mean that it doesn't belong in this game and people aren't allowed to like it.

Besides, this argument isn't very strong imo since again a lot of the "summoner" crisis was mostly aesthetic. They could fix the aesthetic part without compromising other forms of gameplay or even proposing a gameplay that might feel more on the middle ground while keeping whatever identity they wanted for summoner through aesthetic.

So, re-implement previous summoner as the DoT mage job that it always was, with the feeble attempts at summoning aesthetics removed, and allow people to have the "complex", DoT-based DD they always had? I am all for that. Summoner and that job should go in completely different directions, but sure, I'd be all for implementing aspects of the job that people liked in another form. Necromancer would work with the DoT archetype, and you'd get cute little skeletons or something?

[Haseno]

I thoroughly enjoy and appreciate the Summoner rework and I believe it is the right track.

However, the rework feels incomplete.

Furthermore, the rework has exposed how terrible and out of place Aetherflow stacking is. A unique resource which only has 2 usable skills as options. I believe a good path for the summoner is:

1. Expansion of the Aetherflow system with newly added skills and utility skills.
2. AOE Heavy

[Rin_Kuroi]

poison mage

I really don't understand where this is coming from. From a lore perspective Bio and Miasma (which aren't poisons tbf) made perfect sense. The whole concept of a summoner is they drain someone's incorporeal aether and use it to summon a primal. Hell, it's the core idea behind a lot of this game's lore. The claims of poison mage or wow warlock or whatever make no sense to me.

I can understand not liking the mechanics of the old summoner. It certainly had its flaws but summoning bahamut and phoniex absolutely made people feel like a summoner.

Also, I don't understand why these three new elemental summons make you feel like a summoner now when before you didn't. It's not like they are brand new pets. I used both ifrit and garuda day to day. Poor titan needed work. I didn't even use him while solo anymore. I feel like these new elemental summons are just low tier trash. Why aren't we summoning Alexander, Diablos or Knights of the Round? All of which we've seen in game.

[Melorie]

So, re-implement previous summoner as the DoT mage job that it always was, with the feeble attempts at summoning aesthetics removed, and allow people to have the "complex", DoT-based DD they always had? I am all for that. Summoner and that job should go in completely different directions, but sure, I'd be all for implementing aspects of the job that people liked in another form. Necromancer would work with the DoT archetype, and you'd get cute little skeletons or something?

That's actually a good idea, imo. Personally, throwing away the mechanics of summoner altogether is a waste, the game obviously have a rigid combat so killing the few combat ""formulas"" we have isn't a smart choice. They could clean it up and make something out of it. Hopefully next expac? But I don't blame people that mained the class because they enjoyed the flow of the class somewhat and are feeling frustrated.

AST was completely changed on SHB and I'm still not over it tbh.

[OdysseusGR]

“bottom of the barrel players” i didn’t know this is a job or a competition that we had to prove something as players/gamers.

[aveyond-dreams]

Doesn't really matter what "summoner" means to you though

Then the same could be said to all of those who keep complaining that Affliction Warlock has been finally removed from the game. In any case dot gameplay was too boring to be stuck onto a class like Summoner anyway.

Perhaps if that crowd were able to behave more reasonably they might get their dot caster class of their dreams added into 7.0. But if I had to choose between adding another limited job or a dot caster at this rate I probably lean more towards another limited job, because those fans are nowhere near as "enthusiastic" as some of the affliction warlocks that we have left behind that routinely verbally abuse and insult others by attacking their level of competency and intelligence.

So yeah, maybe pandering to this crowd of players who *believe* themselves to be the best was not such a good idea to begin with.

[Riusvell]

Can we go one page without the attacks, please?

Like seriously, if you have nothing but jabs to say about the side that you aren't on, just don't say it.
No one said they were better because they enjoyed the old iteration or anything of the sorts. As I see nothing of that verbal abuse, no.

What I see is the other side continuously attacking and even slinging verbal assaults whenever they try to make a point as to why they like it or when they are faced with counter arguments.

[AceofRains]

Also, I don't understand why these three new elemental summons make you feel like a summoner now when before you didn't. It's not like they are brand new pets. I used both ifrit and garuda day to day. Poor titan needed work. I didn't even use him while solo anymore. I feel like these new elemental summons are just low tier trash. Why aren't we summoning Alexander, Diablos or Knights of the Round? All of which we've seen in game.

Because now the job revolves around Summoning instead of poison. All of your damage is front loaded into the act of Summoning. Keeping your pet out, instant casting the pet, and never having to actually Summon it but out of combat or after death failed to deliver on job fantasy. As you say, Titan needed work, but that is because they couldn’t balance all three of the pets against eachother. It was very unclear where to use which Summon in the correct situation, and god forbid you use Titan. One was always the best to use regardless because of their nature as pets. Now, that they simply appear and cast, there is a reason to use all three, especially in situational context.

We could perhaps see more out of other Summons down the line, I feel that was alluded to by the Magus Sisters dungeon. Since the MSQ is over I hope they put more focus on secondary systems that never got to see the light of day, like new Summons. I was hoping the addition of Shiva, Ramuh, and Leviathan could deepens the job mechanics with Astral/Umbral attunement depending on which 3 you Summon. Here’s hoping for level 100.