Echo VS Blessing Of Light

[Cleretic]

correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't it more or less been established that the echo and the blessing of light are more or less the same thing? You can't have one without the other (unless you're an ascian), because to ACTIVATE the echo you have to be exposed to a meteor shower that wakes up your previous cycle of incarnations memory of the ancient world's end of days.

I'll correct you: you're wrong. The Echo is not the Blessing of Light, and was only conflated with it because of that 'hear, feel, think'; it's an innate ability of certain souls. The Blessing Light is an actual connection with Hydaelyn, and is granted via those crystals of light you might remember the surrounding cutscenes of.

While the Echo is not the Blessing of Light, we can also surmise with reasonable confidence that the Blessing of Light does require the Echo; all of those with the Blessing that we know of have the Echo (the WoL, Ysayle, Ardbert and the other Warriors of Darkness, conceivably but unconfirmably Minfilia), but there are those with the Echo that by all appearances don't have the Blessing (the Sahagin Priest, Arenvald, Mikoto, the Resonant (who you mistakenly called the Hypertuned who are a different thing)).

I can immediately tell you off the top of my head that, yes, there was at least one Echo flashback during the 'suppressed' period; Aymeric talking to Thordan. I'm fairly sure there was more, but that one I remember because I had reason to record it, and right now I'm not super inclined to dig into every single Heavensward quest journal entry.

And on your last point: there's actually no guarantee that the Sahagin Priest even was tempered. Through the Sahagin beast tribe we learned that there actually isn't much difference between the Sahagin factions' beliefs; unlike the actual spiritual beliefs that split beast tribes like the Amal'jaa and Ananta, the Sahagin summoners are essentially just 'the sect crazy enough to escalate'.

[Rosenstrauch]

conceivably but unconfirmably Minfilia

A correction to that:

https://www.finalfantasyxiv.com/anni...?rgn=na&lng=en

Tales from the Calamity featured a short story in which Minfilia awakened to the Echo at a young age. This has never been contradicted, afaik.

[Necrotica]

To shoot my own argument in the foot:

When the Ascians do the whole fusion thing in Heavensward, they tell us they are showing us the true power of the Echo. So they have it. But they are self admittedly tempered by Zodiark.

Unless Zodiark is able to temper people even with the Echo.

AND Ifrit mentions smelling Hydaelyns blessing on us preventing him from tempering us.

Does not explain how Fordola and Zenos are immune to tempering however.

[Cleretic]

Tales from the Calamity featured a short story in which Minfilia awakened to the Echo at a young age. This has never been contradicted, afaik.

To clarify, the unconfirmed part is that Minfilia had the Blessing of Light with the crystals and everything. The fact she has the Echo is never in question (and specifically, she has the same variant the WoL has, with flashbacks), we just don't know exactly what form her favor with Hydaelyn took, if it was the same as the WoL or Ysayle has or something different.

To shoot my own argument in the foot:

Again, this is all to do with the difference between the Echo and the Blessing of Light, which has overall been consistent (which is why the MSQ suddenly not bothering to call them differently is so annoying):

• The Ascians have 'the true power of the Echo' because it is an element of having a fragmented Ancient soul (as clarified in the 5.x patches). Basically, we only have a slice of the whole pizza that the Ascians (especially the Unsundered) have.
• Zodiark is indeed able to temper through the Echo, and judging by the soul crystals in Etched in the Stars, did so immediately on summoning. The Echo isn't immunity to tempering so much as resistance beyond what anything less than Zodiark (or Hydaelyn, conceivably) could serve up.
• Ifrit does not actually smell Hydaelyn's blessing on us. His words are that he doesn't smell the influence of any other primal on us, despite his inability to temper us, which he puts down to us being of 'the godless blessed's number'--the Echo.
• The Resonance is an artificial Echo, with Fordola's specifically based on Krile's (and possibly Zenos' too, that's not stated in Stormblood and I don't know if Endwalker talks about it yet).

All of these are stated directly in the MSQ, these fortunately aren't super-secret truths hidden in random yellow quests or anything like that. Indeed, the only frustrating part is that the MSQ is right now deciding to call them both one and the same--although I should note it's not universal in Endwalker, I've found at least one sidequest that calls out the Echo.

[shadowclasper]

snip

Okay yeah, that does basically blow my theory out of the water. That is annoying then.

[Necrotica]

Wonder if they will bring up the concern of Zodiark tempering us. Or just ignore it.

[Sensyon]

Is there anyway the ability to avoid tempering can come from either source? Like, I know the Blessing of Light and the Echo are two different things, but is it possible that the two abilities have an overlapping “anti-tempering” effect? Where one can avoid tempering from the Echo abilities the protection and imprinting the Blessing provides?

[Riastrad]

I remember saying this a few years ago and received less than favorable replies.
Little victories and all that.

[Rookie1]

Is there anyway the ability to avoid tempering can come from either source? Like, I know the Blessing of Light and the Echo are two different things, but is it possible that the two abilities have an overlapping “anti-tempering” effect? Where one can avoid tempering from the Echo abilities the protection and imprinting the Blessing provides?

I suppose it's possible that protection from tempering is an overlapping ability. It would certainly have it's limits. As was explained to us in the 5.x patches that tempering is a kind of rebalancing of one's aether. Whatever protects you from tempering must protect the person's aether from outside aetheric influence. But if that influence is too strong then it should be possible to overwhelm that protection.

It's just we have no reason to think the echo is any kind of shield. Unlike in the ultima fight when Laheebrea tells gaius that we are protected by the blessing. And he broke that shield with the ultima attack

[atheistcanuck]

Question? Did we have any echo-memory events during the time period where the blessing of light was being suppressed by Midgardsomr? I think we had a few involving lady ice heart but I'm not -positive-.

Cause if we didn't have any echo-visions during that entire period... it'd kinda underline the idea that the echo and the blessing of light where two names for essentially the same thing, only with different wave lengths for different folks. Asskicking being one of them, and Visions of the future, reading people's emotions, perfect communication being another.

We did, seeing the thing that happened with the founders of the high houses and the Eyes, and Hraesvelgr giving Nidhogg his eye.