The Problems With Ninja In Endwalker

[Ilyn]

Also, I was hoping that losing assassinate for Dream would free up a key and bar slot for one of the new abilities, but unfortunately, it will come back if I do any content that's synced below level 56. I suppose I could just macro them to the same key if it won't take too much extra time for the assassinate to execute and fail at higher levels.

I play on controller and I'm pretty much gonna replace Phantom Kamaitachi where I had Shadow Fang ( also since it'll use a Bunshin stack in the opener) and Huraijin probably where I had Assassinate as it's right next to my Armor Crush . I still have no clue where I'm gonna put Forked Raiju and I'll probably have to put Throwing Dagger in a place alittle more accessible then i have it now .. maybe move my defensive abilities and lump Forked Raiju, Throwing Dagger and Shukuchi together hmmmm

[KageTokage]

So much for Shade Shift getting a buff to make it more comparable to the survival cooldowns on the other melee DPS (RPR's Arcane Circle being a bit of a glaring outlier in that regard).

I'm also really not a fan of the double gap closers on the Raiju follow-ups and it would've made more sense to just have the closer on the first follow-up, not both.

[Gemina]

So Raiton will grant up to 3 stacks of Fleeting Raiju but you will still loose the Raiju ready buff if you use a melee weaponskill , so you can still at least use throwing dagger from the sound of it . Hmmm having 3 stacks will make you use 6 gap closers in a row ..... damage seems like it will be awesome but alittle risky .... thoughts??!!!

That does not seem likely. Granting stacks is how they are getting around being forced to use it after Raiton, which will be used multiple times in the opener. I believe the intention behind this skill is to get NIN back in range if they are forced out of melee range and use Raiton. I can get on board with that, but a second follow up gap closer I am not so sure.

[Gemina]

Looks like they also added Katon, Gokka, and Phantom to trigger Hollow, which basically makes Hollow more of a trait than a skill.

I don't know. Quite a bit of this just seems messy, but will work. I guess. I could be biased because of the mudra system I dream of having.

[Fourbestintoner]

I despise whoever thought raiju should have been nin tsubame gaeshi, it should not break while using other gcds and it should also be stackable, letting you use 2 raitons before finally using all 4 of them, literal clown shoes, probably the same guy in charge of drk.
It should work more like atonement.

[Ash_]

Initial thoughts while I wait to log in again. Armour crush is now redundant and should have been deleted instead of shadow fang (which should have been restored as a combo action). Basically aeloian edge all day long now, weaving in huraijin in the last few seconds to refresh huton.

I would switch to MNK now as a main with NIN less rogue then ever, but the MNK changes have left me really confused.

[Kolsykol]

Initial thoughts while I wait to log in again. Armour crush is now redundant and should have been deleted instead of shadow fang (which should have been restored as a combo action). Basically aeloian edge all day long now, weaving in huraijin in the last few seconds to refresh huton.

I would switch to MNK now as a main with NIN less rogue then ever, but the MNK changes have left me really confused.

That's not true, you should still be using Armor Crush to keep Huton up.
It's a damage loss to use Huraijin instead.
Huraijin is also not a ogcd so you can't weave it in.

NIN was never a Rogue not sure what you mean with that.

[Equitable_Remedy]

Out of curiosity, has anyone actually played with the raijus yet? After all of the whining in this thread, I wonder how they actually play. (Of course, I don't expect anyone to come back and say that they were wrong, but I'm still curious.)

I'm only 85, but Phantom Kamaitachi feels very awkward to me on the GCD. Maybe it will feel better once I get used to it, but it really feels like it should have been an oGCD in the former Assassinate slot. The ability itself is sweet, but feels like it could have been an oGCD as the clone goes off and does the actual move. That being said, it's still a fun button to press into a group. (It's not Goka Mekkyaku fun, but then again what is?)

[Nilary]

Hey guys first post!
I don't have an opinion about the Raijus yet, I only know that Ninja "feels" much weaker and boring to play compared to how it was in Shadowbringers. In our burst window we barely have any buttons to press even though it was said by the devs ninja will still feel busy, but it doesn't.
A GNB opener is infinitely more busy than NIN while it is just a tank which is not right and many people seem to forget that one of the best selling points of this game is that every content is kept relatively up to date and somewhat relevant with the level sync system. Yet NIN right now for example on lvl 60 feels atrociously bad to play.

Shadow fang was a launch and forget ability into our trick window but at least it was something we had to press and align with the 5% damage buff and it was also great source of damage on lower level synced content, which we lost for the sake of losing, not coming back and no replacements given. -1 button

Assassinate was annoying at times sure, still we could press it and it was free on demand damage and if we died to it, it was our fault. Got on lvl 60, now got on 40, nerfed to the ground between lvl 40-56, replaced on 56 with dwad. Second -1 button

I don't really want to talk about what's and what is not worth to press, as I saw Phantom is situationally obsolete to the 1-2-3 combo, in my opinion Huraijin is a dead button created for new players so NIN is not that punishing on downtime/death, I don't know... I was always able to press them 3 mudras to refresh Huton and eat the penalty if I messed up something... and the Raijus... idk tbh, seemed cool on paper but the theories about them seem sound, maybe the devs expected ninja players to walk a fine line between chasing lightning damage potencies and giving up Raiju combos for more ninki gauge, I really don't know.

All I know that my burst "feels" weak and boring with Shadow Fang and Assassinate being removed, I always enjoyed to press my Trick Attack->DwaD->Shadow Fang->Assassinate double weave combo and now it's gutted and gone. Maybe we need the 2 second in our trick attack window for Raiju on lvl 90 or something, but what about anything below that? My lvl 60 synced POTD Ninja is a barren wasteland, we have our occasional ninjutsu, 1 minute CD DwaD, 2 minute CD Mug (which I still don't know why we have as it is before Enhanced Mug trait on lvl 66, the whole 150 potency every 2 minutes doesn't make sense), 1 minute CD Trick and the 1-2-3 combo and Huraijin hurray, probably the only content it has any use tbh (sorry I hard cringed during the job showcase when they introduced it, I just can't stand this button...)

[Nilary]

The way they went about everything is really weird. This is how I would do it if my job description was different:
I'd give Armor Crush a damage over time debuff just like how Paladin's 1-2-3 combos work, that would give a fresh new direction to the depth of the job and restore Shadow Fang in essence. Also I would remove its Huton refresh component, so Huraijin would have a real purpose, not talking about potencies, since it is a necesity they could balance the entire game about NIN having 1 gcd where it does x damage because of y, it is not relevant, since they went with the idea of implementing Huraijin the Huton extender has to go. Since Armor Crush becomes a thing on Lv. 54 which is Heavensward area, the ability that can refresh Huton without reapplying it would remain in Heavensward since Huraijin is Lv. 60, I think this is important because new ninjas basically hate their lifes manually refreshing Huton mid fight with a ninjutsu stack. I would also restore Assassinate as how it was, but I would make it same button separate ogcd combo just like how GNB's cartridge was simplified for Endwalker because SE is validly concerned about a job having too many buttons, console players and all that. Keeping the root effect of course, since it had a combo timer and only thing we had to do was to fill it into Trick Attack not worrying about cooldown misalignment and such we can delay it if mechanics would punish us for it and also I dont want to ask for everything.

Rough ideas, didn't really plan potencies and how our Lv. 90 balance would go, but at this moment 60-89 is a barren wasteland (only from 60 because 1-59 is a barren wasteland by design), I really don't know how 90 feels like but even if it's fine on 90, it is not acceptable that only 1 iteration of a job is enjoyable and everything is a drag. I feel like NIN has lost its fast paced, many buttons playstyle. I always played the most complex and difficult melee classes in every mmo that I touched and I feel like ninja is not that anymore.

Sorry if come down as naive, clueless and inexperienced about how new expansion tunings/job changes work, this is my first new expansion because I started in ShB. Might count as a different pespective.