Why was my thread about healer dps deleted?

[ForteNightshade]

It is understood that as things are now, there is no reason not to dps if and when you can, but DEMANDING it of others is the problem. As is requesting SE to make it further required and more complicated purely for more DISTRACTING gameplay.

I'm going to be blunt. A healer who refuses to DPS is entirely worthless compared to those who do. Even if the latter is only contributing a small amount. There is simply zero benefit or reason not to deal damage in this game, regardless of your role. Actively choosing not to means you're demanding other players accommodate your lack of effort. Why is it okay for healers to demand those expectations from others but it isn't okay for everyone to demand equal contribution from them?

No matter what excuses you make, DPSing is required to be a decent healer in FFXIV. That "fault" lies with the developers not the community for designing content which doesn't necessitate a primary focus on healing. Ironically, if they simply returned abilities like Aero III, it would actually make DPSing easier not complicated because the potency of healer nukes could be lowered, thus making it less punishing for healers. Especially for White Mage. Their insistence on healers primary source of damage all coming from a single GCD makes it significantly more punishing replacing said GCD with movement or GCD healing. Which only goes to further illustrate how little the dev team thinks about healer design and gameplay.

[MilkieTea]

I'm going to be blunt. A healer who refuses to DPS is entirely worthless compared to those who do. Even if the latter is only contributing a small amount. There is simply zero benefit or reason not to deal damage in this game, regardless of your role. Actively choosing not to means you're demanding other players accommodate your lack of effort. Why is it okay for healers to demand those expectations from others but it isn't okay for everyone to demand equal contribution from them?

No matter what excuses you make, DPSing as required to be a decent healer in FFXIV. That "fault" lies at the developers not the community for designing content which doesn't necessitate a primarily focus on healing. Ironically, if they simply returned abilities like Aero III, it would actually make DPSing easier not complicated because the potency of healer nukes could be lowered, thus making it less punishing for healers. Especially for White Mage. Their insistence on healers primary source of damage all coming from a single GCD makes it significantly more punishing replace said GCD with movement or GCD healing. Which only goes to further illustrate how little the dev team thinks about healer design and gameplay.

This. A non DPSing healer at lower levels ends up casting maybe 13 healing/healing-adjacent spells a dungeon. This isn't an exaggeration, this is based off of extremely recent heal runs.

[Silver-Strider]

Noooo, you shouldn't point that out!!

Not like they ever answer the question because they know they're wrong either way they try to argue it.

[Semirhage]

Case in point : I would never be so arrogant as to say that "sylphies" are right, only that that are not necessarily wrong.

The problem are those who can't tell the difference between the two and leap straight to defense mode.

Thanks for the demonstration.

And yet "forcing others to DPS" is one of the handful of boring, ice-cold Sylphie takes that weasels around the actual issues at hand by whining about things that don't exist.

Nobody is "enforcing" healer damage. You're safe behind your keyboard or controller. Nobody is threatening to take your kids away unless you cast Broil. You're being informed what the most efficient thing to spend your downtime on is. It's being demonstrated that the downtime involves something that's pretty objectively boring. One group of people is debating what should be done about that. The other is denying reality and substituting nonsense situations to bolster that denial; the community is made primarily of 120 year old arthritis sufferers. Nuh uh, we have SO MANY damage abilities (yeah, having one dot, one aoe, one nuke, and a 45 second cooldown is galaxy brain tier). The word HEALER means HEALING, nevermind the content not reflecting it.

Miss me with the enlightened neutral "saying Sylphies are right or wrong is arrogance". There's a litany of facts they're objectively wrong about. The rest is opinion. You are free to ignore your kit and pretend that spamming Cure is "skill". Don't expect reality to agree with you. You're free to petition Square to redefine ingame reality to make casting Cure 3-4 times per minute while running in circles for the other 50 seconds as "skill". Just don't expect the rest of us to consider that valuable input.

[Vivix]

I find it quite insane that Mt. Gulg a lv79 dungeon and Amarout a lv80 MSQ dungeon to finish off Shb hit harder than Pagalthan, the latest 80. Pagalthan should hit as hard as they do.

I'm not in BiS. Don't even have a single piece of savage gear on my healer and day 1 Pagal was a snoozefest.

I had just unlocked Pagalthan recently and was excited to run it a bunch for the glamour pieces however it was super disappointing when tanks would pull wall to wall and still it was very easy to heal. I had the bare minimum gear to be able to queue for it as well. I know a lot of these tanks were very geared out but I ran it with my wife who was also a fresh lvl 80 like me and when she tanked it was still a breeze.

[Grimoire-M]

I had just unlocked Pagalthan recently and was excited to run it a bunch for the glamour pieces however it was super disappointing when tanks would pull wall to wall and still it was very easy to heal. I had the bare minimum gear to be able to queue for it as well. I know a lot of these tanks were very geared out but I ran it with my wife who was also a fresh lvl 80 like me and when she tanked it was still a breeze.

That’s because Pagalthan is designed to be cleared in i490 gear. That’s midway through LAST tier, and it’s still got casual level effort in mind. The result is a complete snooze fest for the average active player. I remember Twinning and Amanesis Anyder still having memorable moments but even in min ilvl gear I could do the wall to wall quad pull in the latter with only two casts of Adlo after 2 minutes of consistent cooldown management where I was playing safe. Gear inflation is too strong of a factor on its own, but the kits themselves are just as much of an issue.

[Con_Moo]

I'm sure making a thread about thread moderation and continuing the same argument that got the last one erased is going to end well.

You do you I guess.

For what very little that my opinion is worth, either SE has to up the encounter damage to make healing and utility the only jobs we do, or they need to make damage dealing more interesting on healers. At the moment the game isn't satisfactory for either side of this eternal argument.

[Punslinger]

What if it's a preteen, or a 78 great grandmother playing her first MMO, or a disabled person. You want them to be scared away from content they have no trouble healing but can't stand having to multitask for to be spared ridicule?

We all know Lissa is a troll (top-50 parse as healer, hid their logs when called out). But I'm convinced Drkdays is a game journo, since he's going straight to the, "I'm going to use disabled gamers as a shield to deflect criticism of my desire for the game to be made dum-dum easy-mode for me," line of argument.

Tell me, Drkdays, why do you not share this same concern about the difficulty of the tank and DPS roles, for our (nonexistent) disabled octogenarian newbie who works six jobs to support nineteen kids? What if One-Armed Grandma wants to play a DPS? Shouldn't the DPS role be dumbed down to two buttons as well, so that it can be just as "aCcEsSiBlE" as the healer role? I mean, if you're going to pretend you care about disabled/old/inexperienced gamers getting to play FF14, you have to at least be consistent.

[Drkdays]

Charming.

When you start a dps class, you expect to dps. When you start a tank class, you expect to tank. When you start a healer class, you expect to heal.

When you start a dps class, you are expected to dps. When you start a tank class, you are expected to tank. When you start a heal class, you are expected to dps and heal.

See the core flaw there? Healers are the only class that is expected to excel in two areas. What a strange and unexpected burden to place on a player.

Healing is not enough for a healer. Of course it would be intimidating for less able players. It is clearly the most intimidating of any class type. Not only does the party live or die due to your performance, but you are expected to juggle your healing with your dps.

Performing well as a tank means staying alive, cycling through CDs and controlling the pace of the group. Performing well as dps means constant output of dps while avoiding standing in poo. Performing well as a healer means healing your party through unavoidable damage and keeping your tank alive against bosses. But for healers that alone seems to not be good enough. Healers are also expected to maintain nearly as constant dps as a dps class, or face scorn and accusations of laziness, as though providing dps as continuously as possible were not an option at all, but a certain requirement.

Which is one-armed grandma most likely to be able to perform well at? Or rather, which is she most likely to face backlash for performing as simply as possible?

Tank tanking: fine.
Dps dpsing:fine.
Healer healing: lazy.

[Silver-Strider]

Charming.

When you start a dps class, you expect to dps. When you start a tank class, you expect to tank. When you start a healer class, you expect to heal.

When you start a dps class, you are expected to dps. When you start a tank class, you are expected to tank. When you start a heal class, you are expected to dps and heal.

See the core flaw there? Healers are the only class that is expected to excel in two areas. What a strange and unexpected burden to place on a player.

Healing is not enough for a healer. Of course it would be intimidating for less able players. It is clearly the most intimidating of any class type. Not only does the party live or die due to your performance, but you are expected to juggle your healing with your dps.

Performing well as a tank means staying alive, cycling through CDs and controlling the pace of the group. Performing well as dps means constant output of dps while avoiding standing in poo. Performing well as a healer means healing your party through unavoidable damage and keeping your tank alive against bosses. But for healers that alone seems to not be good enough. Healers are also expected to maintain nearly as constant dps as a dps class, or face scorn and accusations of laziness, as though providing dps as continuously as possible were not an option at all, but a certain requirement.

Which is one-armed grandma most likely to be able to perform well at? Or rather, which is she most likely to face backlash for performing as simply as possible?

Tank tanking: fine.
Dps dpsing:fine.
Healer healing: lazy.

A Tank not popping mitigation or a DPS not AoEing/using their support abilities are the equivalent of a Healer not DPSing.
A Tank doesn't need to pop mitigation to Tank
DPS don't have to AoE or use their Battle Litany, Standard Step, etc. in order to do DPS.
A healer doesn't have to DPS.

They're all equally terrible.