"Everyone's so open and friendly" is a lie

[Rinhi]

My favorite posts in this thread are the ones where people complain that this game's community is to soft, coddled or toxic because it doesn't welcome their posts insulting, harassing, or abusing other members of the community; usually with the unsubtle implication that it's only wrong because the community isn't coddling them, personally.

if I risk an infraction because I'm telling player A that their refusal to do mechanic X is making it impossible to progress, then yes, the community is coddled

but hey, it's easy to say this from a high horse, only an 'undesirable' can have this opinion, right? only someone that behaves like that could have that opinion, right?
that I've never insulted, harassed or abused a single other player (other than myself) in the entire time I've been playing will fall on deaf ears or you'll accuse me of lying, I bet

guess I'm just a miserable git like the other poster implied, that's the only reason I could have this opinion, after all!

I don't regular these forums as much as I used to because I've learned that my gameplay views and overall enjoyment is actually negatively impacted by the unchecked negativity and bad-faith arguments I find here. And I'm genuinely more happy. If that is a result of players actively 'suppressing dissenting voices' then I'm honestly all for it. The game won a reward based on its community behavior, and it's not the first time it's been lauded this way. Even if you disagree, enough people feel that way for it to be taken notice. Perhaps the issue with your personal experiences lie elsewhere? I find that introspection is healthy in times of misery. Sometimes being around the wrong people or frequenting the wrong places can color your perception of events as they fold out.

more double standards, yay! it's totally fine to drown out any kind of negative opinion about this game because it makes me feel better!
if a forum is affecting your enjoyment of a game negatively, maybe you should be the one that should do some introspection first before telling someone else to do so, cus it's not affecting mine, nor does the state of the community or people having a different opinion than mine
I don't hang around any negative places either, quite the opposite, actually, but please don't try to allude to 'other' reasons just to try to shut down someone else, please?

[Dewslam]

if I risk an infraction because I'm telling player A that their refusal to do mechanic X is making it impossible to progress, then yes, the community is coddled

but hey, it's easy to say this from a high horse, only an 'undesirable' can have this opinion, right? only someone that behaves like that could have that opinion, right?
that I've never insulted, harassed or abused a single other player (other than myself) in the entire time I've been playing will fall on deaf ears or you'll accuse me of lying, I bet

guess I'm just a miserable git like the other poster implied, that's the only reason I could have this opinion, after all!

lmao get a load of this persecution complex. It's easy to navigate social interactions without breaking the rules or insulting people; if you're incapable of that, that's on you. Maybe spend less time fantasizing about what a poor, ostracized, woebegone soul you are and actually look at your own behavior for like three seconds. No one is obliged to entertain your "negative opinions" at any point, and if you can't uphold the social contract of decorum a community wants - then you're not a good fit for that community. Some places revel in negativity, some places don't. Even 4chan has standards, as low a bar as they are.

[LittleImp]

lmao get a load of this persecution complex. It's easy to navigate social interactions without breaking the rules or insulting people; if you're incapable of that, that's on you. Maybe spend less time fantasizing about what a poor, ostracized, woebegone soul you are and actually look at your own behavior for like three seconds. No one is obliged to entertain your "negative opinions" at any point, and if you can't uphold the social contract of decorum a community wants - then you're not a good fit for that community. Some places revel in negativity, some places don't. Even 4chan has standards, as low a bar as they are.

"It's easy not to insult people, let me demonstrate by insulting you repeatedly."

I've never seen someone undermine the point of their own post so rapidly, thanks for the amusing read.

[Dewslam]

"It's easy not to insult people, let me demonstrate by insulting you repeatedly."

I've never seen someone undermine the point of their own post so rapidly, thanks for the amusing read.

You're welcome. It is easy not to insult people though - there's always something to be said about personal choice in the matter, responsibility for one's own words and all that. I stand by what I've said in both posts! Truly, I am the great duality of man.

But to address it more directly - and more seriously - when it comes to giving advice or help in game, I might just be lucky but I've never had anyone take issue with pointing out that they've missed a mechanic or strategy that caused a wipe. But at the same time I don't usually call out people or make them feel singled out over it if I can help it; if just to avoid making things awkward. I've always found that directly stating who caused the wipe and why tends to just make people defensive while a more vague "Whoops - so heads up everyone: when you've got the debuff over your head, attack the boss that's the opposite colour of it!" usually goes over better. People tend to be hesitant to be the first to admit they either don't know or forgot how a fight goes when they're in a group of people they don't know. As a whole I'd like to think people respond better to positive reinforcement than negative, but I'm no behavioral scientist.

[linayar]

that's... normal? what does that have to do with my point, I must ask, again?
to reiterate it; the community in the main sub (and basically the game itself) is actively suppressing dissenting voices and different opinions, even different experiences, painting those that don't fit into the hivemind and expectations as bad actors, as trolls, as people that have brought it upon themselves, and for what?
so that they can call themselves a nice and friendly community, just ignore all the toxicity that happens against people deemed 'bad', it's fine to be toxic against those because they deserve it, right? happens over and over again on reddit, happens over and over again on the forums here, even (along with crying that the OF is so bad because it isn't coddling people), but hey!

just talk about those toxic experiences you've had on your mainsub! your post about your tank griefing you for no reason will surely not be filled with people that tell you you deserved it, your endgame healer that you asked nicely to use something other than cure 1 and please do dps? people will surely be on your side and not tell you to mind your own business! doesn't matter that the 15 minute dungeon took 40 minutes because of them, you should've just left lol!
crafting mentor giving out bad advice in NN and you want to make a vent post about getting kicked by them and their clique after you corrected them? deleted, only positivity allowed, you were naming and shaming and inviting harassment, even if you weren't

Why would you expect for people to be on your side? If they're not, then so what?

That said, I took a look at the rules for the main sub, and it doesn't allow you to vent about duty finder/pug experiences. So at least that's one excuse, which is unfortunate, as it just collects the people who would vent under another sub.

I can think of a historic label or two.. or a dozen, used to identify people, that will get you in trouble if you use them (with good reason), while being considered 'normal' back in the day.

Well, we can't change history, nor should we. We can can only deal with the present. And as someone who is living in the present, calling someone a WoW player is a neutral label, while calling someone a WoW refugee is a hit on WoW, not the refugee. Of course, this is assuming that they are WoW players/refugees.

[Michieltjuhh]

Well, we can't change history, nor should we. We can can only deal with the present. And as someone who is living in the present, calling someone a WoW player is a neutral label, while calling someone a WoW refugee is a hit on WoW, not the refugee. Of course, this is assuming that they are WoW players/refugees.

It is a negative regardless of how you try to spin it, because it's an otherwise completely pointless statement. I also play League of Legends. Am I to be referred to as a "LoL player" in FF14, despite me playing FF14 at the time and LoL not coming up as a subject of discussion?

But I'll let you explain in what scenario, ever, this could be perceived as positive. Enlighten me.

[Rinhi]

lmao get a load of this persecution complex. It's easy to navigate social interactions without breaking the rules or insulting people; if you're incapable of that, that's on you. Maybe spend less time fantasizing about what a poor, ostracized, woebegone soul you are and actually look at your own behavior for like three seconds. No one is obliged to entertain your "negative opinions" at any point, and if you can't uphold the social contract of decorum a community wants - then you're not a good fit for that community. Some places revel in negativity, some places don't. Even 4chan has standards, as low a bar as they are.

so you didn't even read my post? let me quote myself,

that I've never insulted, harassed or abused a single other player (other than myself) in the entire time I've been playing will fall on deaf ears

not to mention that you're completely shifting goalposts about not being allowed to insult people for whatever reason, just like so many people before you because that's your go-to deflection
thanks for proving your own point wrong, by the way

I won't quote your second post, but... that's exactly what I do, too! can you believe that?! positive reinforcements and suggestions are of course better than negative ones and 'forcing' someone to do something, but that was never my argument in any way, either

Why would you expect for people to be on your side? If they're not, then so what?

what? I'm not expecting anyone to be on my side, where did I say that? I'm just giving you examples of what happens or happened, which all but serves to...

That said, I took a look at the rules for the main sub, and it doesn't allow you to vent about duty finder/pug experiences. So at least that's one excuse, which is unfortunate, as it just collects the people who would vent under another sub.

... paint this community as a beacon of niceness, by pushing away those voices that would disagree or didn't have a good experience, like them

[linayar]

what? I'm not expecting anyone to be on my side, where did I say that? I'm just giving you examples of what happens or happened, which all but serves to...

That said, I took a look at the rules for the main sub, and it doesn't allow you to vent about duty finder/pug experiences. So at least that's one excuse, which is unfortunate, as it just collects the people who would vent under another sub.

... paint this community as a beacon of niceness, by pushing away those voices that would disagree or didn't have a good experience, like them

Don't get me wrong, though. I think the rule is unfortunate because people still want to vent, not because I don't understand why they have it. That said, you can still discuss it in general. Instead of venting about a specific incident, you can describe an issue you have in general terms.

So I still don't see it about pushing away "dissenting" voices, but about not creating drama around specific incidents. Even r/TalesFromDF has to warn people not to encourage negative actions against people.

EDIT:

A nice recent example that I just saw:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/r2iizd/send_help/

It seems to have gotten a positive response at the time of this post.