Dark Knight Megathread

[ArthurATDayne]

Dec 3 & 7th coming up super soon. I'm not optimistic that significant changes if any will be made by then but who knows...

Wish List:

1. Blood Weapon 60s CD: 5 Stacks 30s Duration This isn't up for debate.

2. Delirium 60s CD: 3 Stacks 30s Duration Increase Mana Restore to compensate for only 3 instead of 5 Bloodspillers/Quietus Edited: Already Met

3. Enhanced Unmend + Plunge is Trash Fluff, Give Dark Knights More Reliable ON-Demand HP Restore option besides Abyssal Drain in current state. Abyssal Drain is useless on 1 Target and 1-2-3 SoulEater Combo isn't enough, especially for later 71-80+ Content

4. Oblation is lackluster & should be available way sooner than level 82, like somewhere between 30-69 at the least. Personal or Targeted 1 Party Member 10% Damage Reduction is pretty wimpy, why not just combine it with Dark Mind and give a 15% Damage Reduction for both Physical & Magical, That way we got something useful for all situations starting at 45. If it's stays at 10% Damage Reduction, that's OK but please have it accessible 30-69, sooner the better.

5. Salted Earth... Sigh, 90s CD What the Fuck. It's a crappy version of Circle of Scorn, so it's more like Circle of Shit. If we're going to eventually use this more often instead of ignoring it on hotbar because that Salt & Darkness AOE Blowup effect is too nice to ignore at 90, why not lower the CD to 60s or under so it won't be so forgettable?

6: The Blackest Night: 8s Duration Buff At Least. Don't Nerf CD or any nerfs, it could cause severe imbalance, unhappiness and cause another Calamity.

7: Living Shadow needs to Move Its Ass and Attack Immediately, Stop Posing and Screwing Around. Maybe Synergy with our Attacks to give us some illusion of control over how fast the lazy prick attacks.

[Shurrikhan]

Living Shadow needs to Move Its Ass and Attack Immediately, Stop Posing and Screwing Around.

I get the aesthetic value of the shadow moving earlier, but so long as you're only going to be popping it on longer-lived enemies anyways (and are therefore unlikely to have its total duration go to waste over it not beginning that duration instantly), would this actually make a difference. (Heck, if it did result in a consistent potency increase... it'd just be siphoned from elsewhere unless DRK were undertuned.)

Granted, I'm all for giving Living Shadow the Dancing Rune Weapon treatment (double effects, and +50% damage from each GCD skill over the duration) a la a Bunshin skill actually done right, but... simply skipping the Unmend cast at the start in favor of instantly plunging in (when each is, effectively, on the same 3-second DoT tick / "Shadow-GCD") just makes no difference to actual throughput.

Enhanced Unmend + Plunge is Trash Fluff, Give Dark Knights More Reliable ON-Demand HP Restore option besides Abyssal Drain in current state.

*Looks at Ninja's resets of its longer-CD movement skill on ranged attacks (Raiton, Katon) that aren't a damage-loss even in melee range.*
*Looks back at DRK, for which the oGCD value of Plunge still wouldn't make up for the effective damage loss of using Unmend when the melee combo is available.*
*Double-take.*

Really, though; just reduce Plunge's potency if need be slightly and have Enhance Unmend unlock a free use of Plunge within the next 5 seconds. Voila. It'd actually be kind of fun instead of merely a jeer.

Blood Weapon 60s CD: 5 Stacks 30s Duration This isn't up for debate.

Debatable. No, really, when the exact same functional value can be had by just adding a second or two's duration, why are we so fixated on turning anything and everything into an ammo system?

Delirium 60s CD: 3 Stacks 30s Duration Increase Mana Restore to compensate for only 3 instead of 5 Bloodspillers/Quietus.

Or just give MP restoration equal to average mana-gen-per-gcd of our combo on ALL blood spending GCDs, rather than only those under Delirium. We don't really need even more to bank for/around raid CDs.

[ArthurATDayne]

Debatable. No, really, when the exact same functional value can be had by just adding a second or two's duration, why are we so fixated on turning anything and everything into an ammo system?

It's not because "ammo" is cool or going ammo stack system for the hell of it, it's because it just works well in nearly every situation to address issues like Lag, Fat Fingering Keyboard, Using Spell Speed Skills instead of Skill Speed Skills, Moving out of Melee Range, A Real Life Itch You Gotta Scratch, etc that would prevent the player from getting the best utility out of their Blood Weapon skill.

Merely adding 1 or 2 seconds could work but it's still a tight enough window that Lag, Fat Fingering Keyboard, Spell Speed Skill vs Skill Speed Skill will screw you over and it's such a goddamn annoying rush to mash those buttons in about 10s or under.

30s Duration is really pleasant, gives the player breathing room, and 5 Stacks ensures the player only ever gets utilize 5 stacks worth of mana/blood restore and can't be exploited further. If someone wants to rush and blow all 5 Stacks in a hurry that's fine, take a bit longer to use your 5 stacks dodging stuff/out of melee range etc no problem.

[Shurrikhan]

It's not because "ammo" is cool or going ammo stack system for the hell of it, it's because it just works well in nearly every situation to address issues like Lag, Fat Fingering Keyboard, Using Spell Speed Skills instead of Skill Speed Skills, Moving out of Melee Range, A Real Life Itch You Gotta Scratch, etc that would prevent the player from getting the best utility out of their Blood Weapon skill.

Yes. And? Why should DRK, of all jobs, be immune to lost CD value from forced downtime? Why should DRK, of all jobs, be free to scratch their bum with both hands mid-combat? There's no "getting the best utility out of Blood Weapon" by way of player agency at that point. It'd be uniquely player-irrelevant.

Consider also, if Blood Weapon is deserving of a 30s duration on a damned 5-strike CD, why don't we do use ammo instead for Raging Strikes, Dreadwyrm Stance, Ley Lines, Blood for Blood, Fight or Flight, Requiescat, Riddle of Fire, etc., etc.?

Just give it an extra second's duration to compensate for the delay caused by it checking for Blood Weapon's presence after each hit (therefore some 0.6s later) and it's done. It'd then work as intended.

Merely adding 1 or 2 seconds could work but it's still a tight enough window that Lag, Fat Fingering Keyboard, Spell Speed Skill vs Skill Speed Skill will screw you over and it's such a goddamn annoying rush to mash those buttons in about 10s or under.

...This is true of every durationed CD in the game. That's their point: to optimize the time in which they are active. That "rush" is the point. Don't fat-finger. Don't attempt to multi-weave more than you can without clipping if it'd cost you a GCD under the effect. Don't play badly, especially when your core CDs are rolling.

And I think we can all agree already that either the Skill/Spell Speed split needs to be removed or all hybrid jobs need a trait that duplicates the effect of Skill Speed onto their spells.

[ArthurATDayne]

Yes. And? Why should DRK, of all jobs, be immune to lost CD value from forced downtime? Why should DRK, of all jobs, be free to scratch their bum with both hands mid-combat? There's no "getting the best utility out of Blood Weapon" by way of player agency at that point. It'd be uniquely player-irrelevant.

Consider also, if Blood Weapon is deserving of a 30s duration on a damned 5-strike CD, why don't we do use ammo instead for Raging Strikes, Dreadwyrm Stance, Ley Lines, Blood for Blood, Fight or Flight, Requiescat, Riddle of Fire, etc., etc.?

Just give it an extra second's duration to compensate for the delay caused by it checking for Blood Weapon's presence after each hit (therefore some 0.6s later) and it's done. It'd then work as intended.



...This is true of every durationed CD in the game. That's their point: to optimize the time in which they are active. That "rush" is the point. Don't fat-finger. Don't attempt to multi-weave more than you can without clipping if it'd cost you a GCD under the effect. Don't play badly, especially when your core CDs are rolling.

And I think we can all agree already that either the Skill/Spell Speed split needs to be removed or all hybrid jobs need a trait that duplicates the effect of Skill Speed onto their spells.

I never said Dark Knight players should be scratching their asses while playing, but hey when you need to scratch, you scratch. I'm thinking of them too, along with the folks who fat finger keyboard and who got crappy ISPs and high pings. Blood Weapon 30s Duration 5 Stacks, I'm not taking No for an answer.

Besides on my PLD, Requiescat is going 30s Duration 5 Stacks for the Magic DPS combo (and 400 Cure Potency per Holy Spirit/Circle outside of Stacks or while using Stacks), I don't see why Blood Weapon can't get a similar Quality of Life update too.

You should probably ask other Job Advocates why they are OK or Not OK with their situations, I'm mainly speaking for the Dark Knight Job. But on my PLD and GNB, Fight or Flight & No Mercy 60s CD 20s Duration windows aren't an issue because I'm not reliant on them for restoring Mana/Cartridges/Resources, just hit the Damage Buff and DPS away with Any Weapon Skill/Gnashing Fang Continuation Combo/oGCD.

For the Dark Knight, players are reliant on Blood Weapon to restore Mana/Blood with Mana also being the necessary resource to use The Blackest Night defensive CD. 5 Weapon Skill and/or Spell under Blood Weapon replenishes enough Mana/Blood to afford additional 1 Mana Skill and 1 Blood Skill. Blood Weapon looks like it'll still increase Blood Gauge by 10 so even 4 weapon/spell skills used is enough at least for Bloodspiller/Quietus so it doesn't bother me on the blood side of things.

[Shurrikhan]

I never said Dark Knight players should be scratching their asses while playing, but hey when you need to scratch, you scratch. I'm thinking of them too, along with the folks who fat finger keyboard and who got crappy ISPs and high pings. Blood Weapon 30s Duration 5 Stacks, I'm not taking No for an answer.

Except --unless attached to an actual place of need, such as a 1.5s GCD or such weird off-rhythms as PLD's macrorotation-- you're simply making an adjustment specifically to make the game less challenging, less involved, less mechanically demanding, in general, rather than making a deserved adjustment to a given job.

PLD has reason for ammo, especially in the context of Sword Oath's stacks being extended, because of its odd macrorotation. MCH arguably has reason, though only up to a slightly longer total duration, in that its shortened GCD is thereby that much more susceptible to latency.

DRK, however, does not. It merely needs enough duration to fall just short of any reasonable amount of Skill Speed giving it an extra hit within its duration.

Fight or Flight & No Mercy 60s CD 20s Duration windows aren't an issue because I'm not reliant on them for restoring Mana/Cartridges/Resources

There's no difference. It's just extra potency in that given GCD or afforded by that GCD that then has to likewise be spent within raid CDs to maximize its value. Every GCD that generates MP essentially just has at most that GCD's MP generation times Edge's potency over Edge's cost more potency in itself.

You might as well say that DoTs and direct damage are functionally different even when there's no risk of the DoT being overridden. Having a skill with as much more potency in its global over the average ppgcd falling into a damage window is no different from having a Blood Weapon strike fall inside its window and that afforded portion of an Edge/Flood thereafter fall within raid buffs.

For the Dark Knight, players are reliant on Blood Weapon to restore Mana/Blood with Mana also being the necessary resource to use The Blackest Night defensive CD. 5 Weapon Skill and/or Spell under Blood Weapon replenishes enough Mana/Blood to afford additional 1 Mana Skill and 1 Blood Skill.

You say that like DRK would otherwise be left unable to cast a critical skill and a critical moment just because of the one missing tick despite it being a twentieth of their bankable resource.

Regardless, getting 5 strikes under Blood Weapon becomes a non-issue the moment you add even a half-second of duration to Blood Weapon such that it has a true 10 second duration.

The GCD queues themselves will margin out nearly 250 ms of latency at 0 Skill Speed. By the time you add 2 seconds' duration (11.5 seconds true effective duration), you'd be able to get 5 strikes off at ~325 ms latency even at 0 Skill Speed.

[ArthurATDayne]

you're simply making an adjustment specifically to make the game less challenging, less involved, less mechanically demanding, in general, rather than making a deserved adjustment to a given job.

Why yes I am, I don't see anything wrong with suggesting Blood Weapon going 30s Duration 5 Stacks to make it less stressful and less of a rush to utilize. Less challenging, less involved, less mechanically demanding, so what? I wouldn't mind that. That's why I also call it a Quality of Life improvement, not a Keep It Annoying Because I Love The Pain Baby.

DRK, however, does not. It merely needs enough duration to fall just short of any reasonable amount of Skill Speed giving it an extra hit within its duration.

Yeah but "needs enough duration" isn't good enough for me, it can certainly work out like it is right now, but 30s Duration 5 Stacks please.

There's no difference. It's just extra potency in that given GCD or afforded by that GCD that then has to likewise be spent within raid CDs to maximize its value. Every GCD that generates MP essentially just has at most that GCD's MP generation times Edge's potency over Edge's cost more potency in itself.

Geezus, no difference? It sounds more like you stopped having fun at some point in the past. I will pray to The Twelve for you.

[Beddict]

The GCD queues themselves will margin out nearly 250 ms of latency at 0 Skill Speed. By the time you add 2 seconds' duration (11.5 seconds true effective duration), you'd be able to get 5 strikes off at ~325 ms latency even at 0 Skill Speed.

See, I do think this would be fine. An 11.5s Blood Weapon is enough to allow an easy five Weaponskills with no risk of a sixth, and it provides just enough time for a five Spell Blood Weapon. Spells aren't exactly used in Raids, but it's always been annoying as hell that DRK struggles to get a five GCD Blood Weapon in AoE scenarios unless they are able to sub in a few uses of Quietus. However, people are typically asking for the Ammo system because it's an easy solution. It means DRK isn't getting screwed out of a fifth GCD when using Spells, it prevents a DRK from SkS stacking to try and get a sixth Blood Weapon for some reason, it gets rid of the current less than 10s duration that screws people with poor ping, and it's a system that SE is already leaning in on. Delirium Inner Release, and Requiescat are all moving to the Ammo system in Endwalker, and they already moved Bunshin over to it back in Patch 5.1, so why not give Blood Weapon the same treatment? Or buff the duration, who cares, both are viable options that are better than the current state of Blood Weapon.

[Wayback]

2. Delirium 60s CD: 3 Stacks 30s Duration Increase Mana Restore to compensate for only 3 instead of 5 Bloodspillers/Quietus

Just a note, we're not losing any Mana restoration with the new Delirium. The 200 MP per hit is there to compensate for the loss in MP we'd recieve from our usual 1-2-3 combo, which averages out at 200 MP per GCD.

[ArthurATDayne]

Just a note, we're not losing any Mana restoration with the new Delirium. The 200 MP per hit is there to compensate for the loss in MP we'd recieve from our usual 1-2-3 combo, which averages out at 200 MP per GCD.

Great 1 item checked off from my list.