White-mage is doomed - and why

[GrimGale]

In 60s a WHM can fit 24GCDs, assuming 2.5s GCD:

0s Glare III, oGCD Assize, 2.5s Dia, (5s -30s Glare III x11), 32.5s Dia, (35s-57.5s Glare III x 10), 45s oGCD Assize.

Timer indication is at the start of the cast. No PoM bonus accounted.

Total: 2 Dia 2x660= 1320
2 Assize 2x400=800
22 Glare III 22x310 = 6820

Total 8940

[Liam_Harper]

I think whm can have the identity of healing and dpsing at the same time ex assize and lillies, and sage can have healing through damage ex kardia. I think its distinct enough that they can do it.

oGCD's are how you heal and dps at the same time, especially with all healers having more weave windows now. Assize is unreliable for healing if you consistently dps with it and Lilies lose you a little dps each use. WHM will have the identity of being bad at healing while doing dps.

[Acece]

oGCD's are how you heal and dps at the same time, especially with all healers having more weave windows now. Assize is unreliable for healing if you consistently dps with it and Lilies lose you a little dps each use. WHM will have the identity of being bad at healing while doing dps.

It would definitely need an overhaul of the kit. Whm needs an identity overhaul anyways. Something like divine star, charges on assize, and damage neutral Lillie's would be a start.

[Silver-Strider]

It would definitely need an overhaul of the kit. Whm needs an identity overhaul anyways. Something like divine star, charges on assize, and damage neutral Lillie's would be a start.

Wouldn't even need an entire overhaul, just some minor adjustments that would help the job.

Things like reducing the time to accumulate Lilies down to 20s so that Misery can, potentially, align with Raid buffs more consistently, giving Aqua Veil and/or Divine Benison a counter component so that enemies take damage while people are under the effects of those skills and buffing the potency of Misery and/or having it grant a damage buff of some sort, like the SB Cleric Stance effect, would give WHM more damage without needing a total overhaul.

[QooEr]

I'm not sure if we can properly calculate how many Dosis/Glare would fit in 60 seconds right now.
WHM is also a more GCD reliant healer, and SGE has a greater supply of healing cooldowns. I imagine SGE will pull ahead in most situations

i wrote some code a few weeks back, im just reporting what i found
https://imgur.com/l9oucVe
youre free to proofread the code too (im not putting everything on the pastebin cuz itd be huge lol but the comments say what my custom functions do)
https://pastebin.com/caGiqeZR

im really just reporting what i found from my code on these forums. i agree sage will end up above whm because of its free healing. but i guess whm can be the "selfish pure healer" and sage the "selfish shield healer"

[Iedarus]

I feel like what they should do is put Assize on the GCD, give it the same potency as Glare III, make lilies give mana, and make Misery DPS neutral. That alone would make White Mage feel much better to play.

[Semirhage]

You are delusional and need to turn off your monitor and go outside for a bit. Get some sunshine. Touch some grass.

And yet those threads whining about Glare being "overpowered" still existed, huh. It's almost like I've been on these forums long enough to see patterns. Like Scholar mains heartily agreeing that WHM "needs to be brought up", then screaming to high heaven anytime WHM has any advantage over the other two beyond Cure 3 spamming.

It happens. Every. Single. Time. It's almost like...Scholar mains have this unspoken assumption that a meta slot is theirs by divine right or something.

Wait what? White Mage wasn't actually overpowered by any stretch at the end of Stormblood though? O12S had way too much emphasis on movement for WHM to do well there. The rest of the tier wasn't that much better either TBH. It wasn't awful, WHM was competitive and 'fine'. But I certainly don't remember seeing people complaining about WHM needing nerfs at that point, and if they did I'm sure I'd have been right at the front of the queue to chop them down on it.

As for SCH mains, they had every right to scream and shout over what patches 4.0 and 5.0 did to them. 4.0 was completely inexcusable and will forever stand as a shining demonstration that SE quite literally have no clue what they are doing with healers.

Not end of Stormblood. Beginning of Shadowbringers. WHM outdamaged AST and SCH with Glare for a patch and by god you'd think someone peed in their cornflakes.

My hope of the healers being fun to play is fairly low, and my hope that WHM will ever have a competitive advantage is nonexistent. The devs don't want to give it one, and AST and SCH mains tooooootally want WHM to have an advantage...until it actually has one for five seconds, then they start the shrieking. Watch the Healer forums every single time WHM ends up in the speedkill meta for any length of time, it's like clockwork.

[Liam_Harper]

It's true, I remember the complaints about WHM being overpowered during early ShB because it actually had decent dps. They never nerfed it and obviously once raid buffs started scaling and optimization happened WHM fell behind. So if they nerfed it, it would be a disaster. The one that got me most was the gloating over SCH being bad and how it "deserved" it because it was really strong in the past. Sometimes we have a really bad habit of turning amongst ourselves, and demanding our class gets buffed and the others don't, which is very counterproductive for improving the role as a whole.

In the end though, it was just random forum complaints and not a general consensus. We have plenty of those today too. Best to not take too much notice.

[Grimoire-M]

It's true, I remember the complaints about WHM being overpowered during early ShB because it actually had decent dps. They never nerfed it and obviously once raid buffs started scaling and optimization happened WHM fell behind. So if they nerfed it, it would be a disaster. The one that got me most was the gloating over SCH being bad and how it "deserved" it because it was really strong in the past. Sometimes we have a really bad habit of turning amongst ourselves, and demanding our class gets buffed and the others don't, which is very counterproductive for improving the role as a whole.

In the end though, it was just random forum complaints and not a general consensus. We have plenty of those today too. Best to not take too much notice.

It did need it relative to AST and WHM. With Sage in the picture I’m worried both will make AST and WHM obsolete for similar reasons. I don’t think WHM has any meaningful advantages, and any SCH has are held by Sage as well.

[Renathras]

Hm...I think this depends on content. Like you mentioned, static-end-game vs all other content/players in the game.

I liked the old Thin Air, but it didn't recover MP as far as I'm aware. Assize does, and we use that on CD. We also get two free Cure 2/Medicas per minute because of Lilies - Afflatus Solace and Rapture having the same potency as Cure 2 and Medica, and we have a number of oGCDs that fit in here as well, for example, Tetra is basically another Cure 2.

I do all the way up to Extremes and want to try Savage in EW, but I could see Savage and Ultimates using Thin Air a lot. Anything less than that, though, it's not strictly necessary. I've used it for the Varis Phase 1->2 transition and SoSEx and HadEx Doom timers, but it's not really NEEDED I just want to have MP left when I'm done with the Cure 3 spam.

Because WHM still gets a lot of healing from Lilies and oGCD healing, our MP isn't as much of a problem as it might otherwise be, and healers actually melding Piety again is probably not the worst thing in the world...

...but I DO agree that if ONLY WHM is having to do that and the other healers are not, that could become a problem and make WHM less than optimal.

I don't believe it is "doomed" by any measure. Even in SB when WHM was undoubtedly the weakest healer it was still prized in prog for outright brute force healing potency as well as in single healer late farm, and it was never NOT capable in the middle normal farm, it was just less desired.

I believe WHM will always have a spot as a powerful and approachable healer, which is useful in prog and, if you're in a static that gets through prog, it's not like your group is suddenly going to dump you because you're not playing the "optimal" Job since they already got clears with you unless you're a mean person or weren't playing well to begin with.

At least, this is my thinking. /shrug