White-mage is doomed - and why

[Grimoire-M]

Agreed, my one major point of caution is where people define "parity". I've seen quite a lot of suggestions on the forums over the years that aren't very good. And the reason they're not very good isn't because the suggestion isn't unique or theoretically an interesting bit of design; most of WHM's "suggestions" follow the same vein that the Square designers want for the job. Something that seems interesting or unique on paper but is actually something that the game's combat system cares nothing about. WHM could use self-healing potions faster. It could have a 5 second shorter cooldown on Sprint. Hell, it's historically been cursed with the "has higher healing potency" name (though that hasn't been true in a long time since AST stomps all over its healing potency outside Cure 3). All of those are unique, but they certainly aren't what I'd call advantages.

I'm particularly harping on this point because this is exactly what I mean when I say the massive community circular argument surrounding WHM never actually seeks to -solve- WHM's issues. When I've argued with AST and SCH mains, and they agree WHM needs to bring something unique to the table, they never, ever want it to have anything *useful*. Just something stupid that never translates into a real advantage, like more overhealing or whatever.

Lilybell is that in theory. The problem is the devs then shove something even better than that into the newest healers (Panhaima, Physis II on Sage, Macrocosmos on AST) for no good reason. Ostensibly it is to enforce that parity issue. If SCH wasn't already ahead of the curve relative to WHM (though it's pretty clear they're Third only by the grace of how far ahead they've been in the past) I would be bothered by them distinctly -NOT- getting some equivalent to that, but the fact is SE didn't even bother to figure out what SCH even needed (and I'd agree it -wasn't- a Lilybell equivalent), and it shows. The devs don't seem particularly interested in even -trying- to enforce any particular paradigm, just whatever looks the prettiest and easiest to juggle in testing, in order to get the casual players to say it's fine and then they tell the vets to shut up about the consequences. And the result is the most efficient tools and rDPS wins. Every. Damn. Time.

To be clear, I don't have a problem if only a particular subset of all healers have -something- for a given situation. My problem is that lack of attention to how those edge cases affect their overall state. After the trashpile that was AST for the last three expansions, they couldn't even be bothered to figure out how to make Sage -distinct- in a manner that actually matters for 80% of the kit. And the result is that last 20% makes it flat out better just from prior game knowledge. That's been happening to WHM since ARR.

[Semirhage]

I have yet to see a single post that says AST and SCH "Deserve" mandatory meta slots. I've love for you to prove me wrong if you have the proof, but otherwise, that argument is nothing more than a Strawman.

Literally all of the bitching on these forums that Glare "deserved" nerfs when 5.0 dropped because dirty White Mage DARED to outdamage precious Astro and Scholar.

They never come out and say WHM deserves to be inferior. It's always "give them something to do, sure!" "WHAT!? WHM IS MORE POWEFUL THAN ME!? NERF IT NERF IT! I'M MORE COMPLEX AND DESERVE MORE OUTPUT!"

Scholar mains pitch a fit anytime it even looks like they might for ten seconds be off-meta.

[Semirhage]

Lilybell is that in theory. The problem is the devs then shove something even better than that into the newest healers (Panhaima, Physis II on Sage, Macrocosmos on AST) for no good reason. Ostensibly it is to enforce that parity issue. If SCH wasn't already ahead of the curve relative to WHM (though it's pretty clear they're Third only by the grace of how far ahead they've been in the past) I would be bothered by them distinctly -NOT- getting some equivalent to that, but the fact is SE didn't even bother to figure out what SCH even needed (and I'd agree it -wasn't- a Lilybell equivalent), and it shows. The devs don't seem particularly interested in even -trying- to enforce any particular paradigm, just whatever looks the prettiest and easiest to juggle in testing, in order to get the casual players to say it's fine and then they tell the vets to shut up about the consequences. And the result is the most efficient tools and rDPS wins. Every. Damn. Time.

To be clear, I don't have a problem if only a particular subset of all healers have -something- for a given situation. My problem is that lack of attention to how those edge cases affect their overall state. After the trashpile that was AST for the last three expansions, they couldn't even be bothered to figure out how to make Sage -distinct- in a manner that actually matters for 80% of the kit. And the result is that last 20% makes it flat out better just from prior game knowledge. That's been happening to WHM since ARR.

Agreed. However, the complaining on these forums about WHM getting a stun on Holy, complaining about the amount of damage Glare did in early patches (despite quickly being outclassed once gear came rolling in), just leads me to suspect that all of the AST/SCH insistence that WHM get something unique or useful is completely disingenuous, since their respective communities rage and complain and whine any time WHM has any tiny bit of useful uniqueness in its kit, despite hilariously outclassing them in almost every other way.

[Deceptus]

Literally all of the bitching on these forums that Glare "deserved" nerfs when 5.0 dropped because dirty White Mage DARED to outdamage precious Astro and Scholar.

They never come out and say WHM deserves to be inferior. It's always "give them something to do, sure!" "WHAT!? WHM IS MORE POWEFUL THAN ME!? NERF IT NERF IT! I'M MORE COMPLEX AND DESERVE MORE OUTPUT!"

Scholar mains pitch a fit anytime it even looks like they might for ten seconds be off-meta.

You are delusional and need to turn off your monitor and go outside for a bit. Get some sunshine. Touch some grass.

[Burmecia]

Literally all of the bitching on these forums that Glare "deserved" nerfs when 5.0 dropped because dirty White Mage DARED to outdamage precious Astro and Scholar.

They never come out and say WHM deserves to be inferior. It's always "give them something to do, sure!" "WHAT!? WHM IS MORE POWEFUL THAN ME!? NERF IT NERF IT! I'M MORE COMPLEX AND DESERVE MORE OUTPUT!"

Scholar mains pitch a fit anytime it even looks like they might for ten seconds be off-meta.

I've nothing to say about the state of WHM/healers in general, but this gave me sensible chuckle.

[Sebazy]

Literally all of the bitching on these forums that Glare "deserved" nerfs when 5.0 dropped because dirty White Mage DARED to outdamage precious Astro and Scholar.

Wait what? White Mage wasn't actually overpowered by any stretch at the end of Stormblood though? O12S had way too much emphasis on movement for WHM to do well there. The rest of the tier wasn't that much better either TBH. It wasn't awful, WHM was competitive and 'fine'. But I certainly don't remember seeing people complaining about WHM needing nerfs at that point, and if they did I'm sure I'd have been right at the front of the queue to chop them down on it.

As for SCH mains, they had every right to scream and shout over what patches 4.0 and 5.0 did to them. 4.0 was completely inexcusable and will forever stand as a shining demonstration that SE quite literally have no clue what they are doing with healers.

[IllyaPrisma]

Wait what? White Mage wasn't actually overpowered by any stretch at the end of Stormblood though?

I believe what this poster was referring to, was White Mage's increase in viability near the start of the 5.0 Shadowbringers. Raid buffs, especially Crit Buffs, have far less impact near the start of the expansion due to how gear progression works. WHM also had monstrous personal DPS, and Broil was 280 Potency. This meant that for a small period of time, WHM was a more viable choice than SCH. Natural Gear Progression and the valuing of Crit Buffs, along with the Broil Potency Increase to 290 pushed SCH ahead in the later half of the expansion. Near the beginning of ShB, there were several threads and requests to nerf WHM, even though it wasn't over-tuned. (that is the complaining the poster is referring to)

[Shurrikhan]

I believe what this poster was referring to, was White Mage's increase in viability near the start of the 5.0 Shadowbringers. Raid buffs, especially Crit Buffs, have far less impact near the start of the expansion due to how gear progression works.

This is true, but it makes me wonder if even just some small factor or buff (e.g., PoM) with slightly better than linear scaling could make up the difference...

If WHM's rDPS could just increase at the same rate as that of the healers who have indirect rDPS contribution through raid buffs (and so that part of their contribution therefore increases at the rate average for the whole party, rather than just themselves), then we'd be fine, I would think? So long as we are balanced at the start, we'd likewise be balanced at the end.

[Irenia]

I've been throwing around an idea for a WHM ability that amplified buffs on allies and debuffs on enemies for their spells only. So they could get bigger bonuses from raid buffs than other healers by lining that up with said raid buffs.

It keeps the "big number" and selfish dps identity of WHM that people like me enjoy, too.

[Shurrikhan]

I've been throwing around an idea for a WHM ability that amplified buffs on allies and debuffs on enemies for their spells only. So they could get bigger bonuses from raid buffs than other healers by lining that up with said raid buffs.

It keeps the "big number" and selfish dps identity of WHM that people like me enjoy, too.

It'd be a bit weird having their total party contribution sapped by having "selfish" DPS, though, wouldn't it? BLM and SAM put out enough damage that they still lead even after having assigned all the BLM/SAM's value in essentially buffing the damage milked from Trick Attack, Litany, etc., to the respective NIN, DRG, et cetera. As such, being discouraged from taking "selfish" DPS even if they're your best rDPS contributors or most improve party performance just for what little gap there is to be had from optimizing a WHM would be a bit off-putting, to say the least.