Assize should have second charge

[Sebazy]

<snip>

I mean sure, but this just adds said bloat for no real gain over simply adding the second charge? The charge angle is just so much more elegant IMO.

Realistically, what would a second charge do? You blow the 1st on damage and hold the 2nd for an AoE damage to utilize the heal. Guess what? You are now out of charges and are right back to square 1 where you are blowing Assize on CD because Damage/MP. Nothing has realistically changed. You still don't get to use Assize as a heal outside of that 1 time. That's hardly any better than what you're currently doing with Assize and unless there's a transition that downs you for the duration to build up a second stack of Assize, you still only get 1 extra heal usage out of it.

I get the feeling you're approaching it from the angle that the WHM is going to be bottomed out on MP by the time that the 3rd Assize rolls round? That's not really going to be the case in any reasonable situation. Either that or your misunderstanding the main benefit in that the cooldown will keep ticking down whilst you sit on 1 of the 2 charges.

Rather the beauty is that right now, if Assize isn't on cooldown, as you say, you're leaving DPS and MP on the table.

With 2 charges, you can have assize ready to cast but still have the second charge ticking round off cooldown. So in your example, you blow both charges in the opener. Let's say the fight has a big raid wide AoE 1 minute into the fight. 2 charges will allow you to stall your next assize for the extra 15 seconds potentially allowing you to keep Asylum in your pocket for the next raid wide.

Remember that the entire point of 2 charges is that you don't have to blow the first charge on cooldown. That timer will still be ticking round for the second charge whilst you have the 1st banked for up to 45 seconds. On a fight like E12S this would be a huge boon for WHM IMHO.

The emphasis here is that until you are either flatlined on MP or the fight is about to end, there's no penalty for sitting on 1 charge and stalling it to align with either adds or some healing requirement. There's no need to keep both charges on CD right from your opener. If anything, doing that would be counter productive if you want to try and get 2 casts in with subsequent raid buff windows.

*edit* Holy moly that post reads badly sorry

[Silver-Strider]

I mean sure, but this just adds said bloat for no real gain over simply adding the second charge? The charge angle is just so much more elegant IMO.



I get the feeling you're approaching it from the angle that the WHM is going to be bottomed out on MP by the time that the 3rd Assize rolls round? That's not really going to be the case in any reasonable situation. Either that or your misunderstanding the main benefit in that the cooldown will keep ticking down whilst you sit on 1 of the 2 charges.

Rather the beauty is that right now, if Assize isn't on cooldown, as you say, you're leaving DPS and MP on the table.

With 2 charges, you can have assize ready to cast but still have the second charge ticking round off cooldown. So in your example, you blow both charges in the opener. Let's say the fight has a big raid wide AoE 1 minute into the fight. 2 charges will allow you to stall your next assize for the extra 15 seconds potentially allowing you to keep Asylum in your pocket for the next raid wide.

Remember that the entire point of 2 charges is that you don't have to blow the first charge on cooldown. That timer will still be ticking round for the second charge whilst you have the 1st banked for up to 45 seconds. On a fight like E12S this would be a huge boon for WHM IMHO.

The emphasis here is that until you are either flatlined on MP or the fight is about to end, there's no penalty for sitting on 1 charge and stalling it to align with either adds or some healing requirement. There's no need to keep both charges on CD right from your opener. If anything, doing that would be counter productive if you want to try and get 2 casts in with subsequent raid buff windows.

*edit* Holy moly that post reads badly sorry

I'm looking at the extra stack of Assize and considering all the possible issues that can occur. I'm greatly concerned that WHM will be flatlining on its MP due to the Thin Air nerf and while having a 2nd stack of Assize means we can delay needing to use a GCD heal by saving Assize for healing purposes, will we be able to delay needing that 5% MP restore? All the theories so far have accounted for Assize being used on CD and still WHM comes out dry in a little over 7 minutes so would a 2nd charge really help that much when it would only really be 1-2 extra uses in those fights? Then, we also need to consider how a 2nd stack of Assize could potentially affect the balance between Healers in terms of damage. If MP isn't found to be an issue or is adjusted to be a non-issue again, would a 2nd stack of Assize, on top of the potency increase to Glare, put WHM at too much of an advantage over AST/SCH/SGE in terms of DPS, however unlikely that is to be?

I just don't see a 2nd charge of Assize being the right solution to the problem is all.

[Semirhage]

So what if it makes WHM do more damage than the others, in the unlikely event that it does? Scholar and Astro regularly outdamage WHM by a hilarious margin, and if Assize somehow ends up tipping that balance it won't matter because every single time WHM has any material advantage over the other healers, no matter how small, ever, they bitch and moan that the more complex healers "deserve" to be more powerful, and they get buffed into being directly superior choices by the next minor patch.

[Sebazy]

<snip>

I suppose it'll depend on the fight really. In something like E8S where raid wide damage is so infrequent that you'll have a surplus of oGCDs on tap then no, it won't make a difference at all.

For something like E12S where in more mainstream play, a WHM is likely to be forced to use Medica II, it'll be of much more value.

Again, it's not about allowing more uses of Assize, for the most part, it'll allow 1 more cast and that's it. But that's not the point here. Nor is it correct to assume that a WHM is going to be permanently out of MP. This isn't the fix that's needed to address that. The strength of this is in allowing a WHM to actually try and get value out of the healing portion of Assize rather than it just being a 45 second dps+mp oGCD.

Fixing the MP thing is going to need something else. But writing this off because it doesn't tackle that specific issue seems backwards to me? It's strikes me as a nice addition to a signature WHM ability.

[Risvertasashi]

This is one of the strengths Sage has over WHM. It's version of assize has 2 charges - so you can reserve one for burst windows - and it's higher potency. In addition to everything else being markedly higher potency as well. Sage is going to hit like a truck.

[Sunako]

This is one of the strengths Sage has over WHM. It's version of assize has 2 charges - so you can reserve one for burst windows - and it's higher potency. In addition to everything else being markedly higher potency as well. Sage is going to hit like a truck.

Well, that is a pretty controversial opinion, because sage has global to use. Theoretically, it is only 180 potencies more than their basic nuke. Sage has the weakest burst windows out of healers because their main damage comes from the basic nuke.

[Jirah]

What would even be the point? Stuff like Essential dignity makes sense to stock and spend but assize? I figured Tertra would make the most sense even if I personally feel the devs are going abit overboard on charges

[Risvertasashi]

Well, that is a pretty controversial opinion, because sage has global to use. Theoretically, it is only 180 potencies more than their basic nuke. Sage has the weakest burst windows out of healers because their main damage comes from the basic nuke.

Well. 2x510 potency for the burst window and 1x510 for every burst window after that, since having 2 charges means you can keep the CD rolling while also keeping 1 in reserve. vs 400 from assize, which will only hit burst windows by happenstance. Both skills have the same CD.

Then 330 potency on the main nuke, vs 310 from WHM and less from the others.

Highest potency DoT too (Tied with scholar, WHM and AST are less).

I stand by what I said: Sage is going to hit like a truck.

(And because someone will inevitably say it - yes, I know dev build potencies are subject to change. Do you really think SE is going to do anything drastic to them before launch, though?)

[Sunako]

snip

That's exactly why their burst window is weak because consistent damage is good.

during the burst, Sage can only use that extra skill 1 - 2 times and that is 180 - 360 extra potency during burst window relatively Nonburst window

WHM have POM + Assize + potentially misery

AST have cards + Divination + earthly star

SCH has Chain Stratagem + Energy drains + Dissipation

If all healers have somewhat the same balanced DPS, realistically thinking Sage should have the weakest burst window.

[Semirhage]

It'd be a huge boon to WHM since they have the worst free AOE healing by a massive margin. Assize as it stands is a significant damage and mana loss to sit on for the heal portion. Asylum is on a longer cooldown than Sacred Soil and CU and the total potency-over-uptime is worse. Lilybell has a memeworthy long cooldown for how inflexible it is. And to top it all off, it has fewer of them than the other healers. Assize's fatal weakness is that it's an ever-increasing ugly damage loss every second its cooldown isn't ticking. A second charge completely alleviates this, because you can hold an activation while it's cooling down. It makes the notoriously inflexible healer less clunky, feel less terrible to optimize, and more newbie friendly. It's a change that would benefit Sylphie and veteran alike. It's such an easy, elegant solution that the fact the devs thought Divine freaking Benison needed it more shows just how little the job designers know about how healers play.