Dark Knight Megathread

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

^ minus.the TBN part, all my issues with it as well.

[MagiusNecros]

^ minus.the TBN part, all my issues with it as well.

Well you know honestly I don't really like TBN on the metric that DRK's mitigation is completely built around it and it really fucking sucks once the novelty wears off. I really like the concept of having a frequent damage shield but on the other hand you really have nothing else to fall back on. Like the skill is good but it's also garbage at the same time. Like you have a truckload of mitigation problems for a whole 69 levels. It's just damn awful.

Being gutted each expansion is going to make players wonder what DRK was like that made each xpac fun or manageable when the way you played the class was different in each one.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Well you know honestly I don't really like TBN on the metric that DRK's mitigation is completely built around it and it really fucking sucks once the novelty wears off. I really like the concept of having a frequent damage shield but on the other hand you really have nothing else to fall back on. Like the skill is good but it's also garbage at the same time. Like you have a truckload of mitigation problems for a whole 69 levels. It's just damn awful.

Being gutted each expansion is going to make players wonder what DRK was like that made each xpac fun or manageable when the way you played the class was different in each one.

Can see where you are coming from with this, TBN is in fact integral to DRK's strong single target mitigation niche since Stormblood and frankly parr of reason, why Living Dead was kept intentionally "worst invuln" to balance it.

Now with Endwalker tho - oh boy. Buffed Holm and Bolide to 10s, gave every tank insane short CD mitigation upgrades that are on par or even better than TBN and DRK gets... Oblation, on 60s CD á 2 charges, essentially a "free reprisal". And LD is still in the archaic 3.X state.

Hell the Dark Mind issue could be resolved by just adding a counterpart with equal stats but for physical - Dark Dance comes to mind for flavour purpose.

Anyhow, I loved DRK to death, even now, but the Endwalker changes and addition were just... "why".

Enough is enough, even for a diehard TBN and MP spam enjoyer.

[ArthurATDayne]

Well you know honestly I don't really like TBN on the metric that DRK's mitigation is completely built around it and it really fucking sucks once the novelty wears off. I really like the concept of having a frequent damage shield but on the other hand you really have nothing else to fall back on. Like the skill is good but it's also garbage at the same time. Like you have a truckload of mitigation problems for a whole 69 levels. It's just damn awful.

Being gutted each expansion is going to make players wonder what DRK was like that made each xpac fun or manageable when the way you played the class was different in each one.

I would be pretty happy if DRK had something to fall back on once TBN is gone via popped or expired and a flat 10% Lame Oblation/Free Reprisal is Not Enough or Not It.

Since every other Tank Short CD Mitigation is going the smart route of Layered Defenses + HP recovery (HP Recovery is part of Layered Defenses) of some sort the DRK should at least get some upgrade to HP recovery to improve Sustain, doesn't have to be huge, just sensible.

I.E. I would be pretty content even if the change was small like say Abyssal Drain's CD was decreased to 45s or 30s and the healing gave a flat Minimum of 600 Potency to 1200 Potency Max on 4+ Mobs or something, maybe add a Guaranteed Heal over Time component so Abyssal Drain doesn't feel like shit to use on 1 Mob like say a Boss. I don't think this is too much to ask.

If Abyssal Drain is intended to stay as a Fluff skill then why not just add a decent Heal Over Time component to TBN if Bubble Pops or Expires? Personally I'd love to get a 10% Reduced Damage Taken effect of 5s after Bubble is gone but a Heal Over Time effect would be more useful considering the whole kit because DRK Sustain is lacking compared to the other 3 Tanks going into Endwalker.

Hell, if Oblation is going to be forced down DRK's throat I would hope it eventually gets a significant Heal Over Time component at least. Could even make Oblation a new skill that DRK can use Pre-Level 50, Oblation is Lame as a Level 82 skill and really should've appeared at low 30-69 leveling at least, and no doubt most players are going to use it after TBN pops bc the alternative is what? Not using your extra 10% Reduced Damage Taken?

SquareEnix could also tack on that Heal Over Time component at Level 82 or something because 70-80 DRK is pretty OK for most of the game's accessible content.

[Lyth]

I really like the look of DRK's defensive abilities. There's this common aesthetic of spherical arcane barriers. I think they should just stick with the theme instead of mixing and matching different types of defensive effects. There's no reason why every tank has to have % damage reduction effects.

There's an easy solution to Dark Mind and Dark Missionary catering to one damage type only. Just rework that odd Dark Arts proc so that it actually produces ability swaps instead of being directly translated into dps.

Oblation: Sacrifice HP equal to 10% of your total. Grants a barrier on target player totaling 20% of your total. If you prevent damage this way, gain Dark Arts. This ability cannot be used if it would reduce your HP to 0. Recast: 15 seconds.

Dark Mind: Absorbs magical damage up to 20% of your total. If you prevent damage this way, gain HP. Action changes to Dark Force while under the effect of Dark Arts.

Dark Force: Absorbs physical damage up to 20% of your total. If you prevent damage this way, gain HP.

Dark Missionary: Absorbs magical damage to self and nearby party members for damage up to 15% of your total HP. If you prevent damage this way, gain HP. Action changes to Dark Emissary while under the effect of Dark Arts.

Dark Emissary: Absorbs physical damage to self and nearby party members for damage up to 15% of your total HP. If you prevent damage this way, gain HP.

Walking Dead: Absorbs all incoming damage. You cannot restore HP while this effect is active. When this effect ends, you gain HP equal to the amount of damage absorbed.

I also think that DRK needs to expand out its range of GCDs. What I'd recommend is that instead of a second branching combo that follows a fixed pattern, you just add in a 4th combo step that procs randomly to give you either a bit more blood or a bit more MP, depending on what lights up. Think Wheeling Thrust/Fang and Claw, except with say Bloodspiller randomly proccing to give you a bit of extra blood on your 4th step, or Scourge randomly proccing to give you a bit of extra MP on your 4th step.

[Shurrikhan]

Walking Dead: Absorbs all incoming damage. You cannot restore HP while this effect is active. When this effect ends, you gain HP equal to the amount of damage absorbed.

This would be so lovely, but I can already taste the WHM salt from over the learning period, despite it only asking for about a second's more delay.

There's an easy solution to Dark Mind and Dark Missionary catering to one damage type only. Just rework that odd Dark Arts proc so that it actually produces ability swaps instead of being directly translated into dps.

Choosing which among, effectively, a pair of a shared-cooldown CDs to use based on incoming damage types isn't my idea of a compelling or DRK-iconic mechanic, but so long as this were taken further (to more than 2 abilities and therefore more than just a single button saved for the extra hoop to jump through), I'd certainly take it.

Oblation: Sacrifice HP equal to 10% of your total. Grants a barrier on target player totaling 20% of your total. If you prevent damage this way, gain Dark Arts. This ability cannot be used if it would reduce your HP to 0. Recast: 15 seconds.

Why force your minor CD or raid CD to go anti-physical any time you, as a party, save up to 10% of your HP (getting 20% at the cost of 10%)? You'd have to avoid using it before any magical raid-wide, and wouldn't have access to a physical minor CD anytime no one else is being hit.

The better-than-transferred HP concept is plenty neat and pretty darn fitting, though.


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Sorry for the edit, but I'm out of daily posts.

Xeno pointed out that calling the present proc on TBN a 'Dark Arts' proc is superfluous. You don't really need special terminology or a gauge icon for this. Just have it give you the free Edge/Flood as an 'Additional Effect'. If you want to keep something similar to the original, then have the proc apply to defensive abilities and utility actions exclusively. I was tempted to suggest that Plunge either propels you forwards or backwards depending on whether Dark Arts was active, but that have some unexpected and hilarious consequences.

Ahh, I see. I thought the proc your suggested Oblation was providing was the Dark Arts you mentioned in the line above it (Magic<->Physical switch-flip), rather than the current one (free Edge/Flood).

Which lead me to thinking: what if you had a job that was effectively like Dissidia's Cecil, where you effectively swap between two sets of parallel abilities?

Indeed. The concept is appealing. I'd just like to see that route, if taken, go whole-hog. Why not, for instance, a full Darkside approach by which to manipulate your Shadow self (and adjust many a skill, instead of just a few select defensives)? It's not so much a matter of "This is a lackluster idea" as simply "If a large part of the goal is button-efficiency, we should keep in mind that the toggle itself will require a button, and therefore put enough on the system for it to be worthwhile" and "What other thematic elements could benefit? Let's hit their marks, too, while we're at it."

The original Dark Arts idea was really elegant in that some actions didn't have an unconditionally 'best' way to use them. You might use DA Dark Dance if you're doing a massive pull. But if you're trying to proc Reprisal, especially in single target, standard Dark Dance was better. The problem was that you could equate Dark Arts to potency, which then dictated how you used it.

I'm assuming here you are referring only to the added Souleater or Power Slash potency -- rather than the more comprehensive, rDPS gains, too, of one mitigation spender outpacing another...

In that case, though, the solution seems fairly simple: Why not have it only enhance (or create) the additional effects, never the potencies themselves? Linear AoE blind, further self-healing (ST), self-healing (AoE), dodge chance, and further magic mitigation, etc. would hardly any outlier to which we'd default 4 times in 5 outside of particularly high damage intake, as per the old SE/PS usage.

[Derio]

I really like the look of DRK's defensive abilities. There's this common aesthetic of spherical arcane barriers. I think they should just stick with the theme instead of mixing and matching different types of defensive effects. There's no reason why every tank has to have % damage reduction effects.

There's an easy solution to Dark Mind and Dark Missionary catering to one damage type only. Just rework that odd Dark Arts proc so that it actually produces ability swaps instead of being directly translated into dps.

Oblation: Sacrifice HP equal to 10% of your total. Grants a barrier on target player totaling 20% of your total. If you prevent damage this way, gain Dark Arts. This ability cannot be used if it would reduce your HP to 0. Recast: 15 seconds.

Dark Mind: Absorbs magical damage up to 20% of your total. If you prevent damage this way, gain HP. Action changes to Dark Force while under the effect of Dark Arts.

Dark Force: Absorbs physical damage up to 20% of your total. If you prevent damage this way, gain HP.

Dark Missionary: Absorbs magical damage to self and nearby party members for damage up to 15% of your total HP. If you prevent damage this way, gain HP. Action changes to Dark Emissary while under the effect of Dark Arts.

Dark Emissary: Absorbs physical damage to self and nearby party members for damage up to 15% of your total HP. If you prevent damage this way, gain HP.

Walking Dead: Absorbs all incoming damage. You cannot restore HP while this effect is active. When this effect ends, you gain HP equal to the amount of damage absorbed.

I also think that DRK needs to expand out its range of GCDs. What I'd recommend is that instead of a second branching combo that follows a fixed pattern, you just add in a 4th combo step that procs randomly to give you either a bit more blood or a bit more MP, depending on what lights up. Think Wheeling Thrust/Fang and Claw, except with say Bloodspiller randomly proccing to give you a bit of extra blood on your 4th step, or Scourge randomly proccing to give you a bit of extra MP on your 4th step.

If living dead was changed to what you propose it could possibly be the best invuln in the game. But sadly devs wont do that.