Summoner is a Final Fantasy 14 summoner (not a warlock wow clone)

[MagiusNecros]

BLM mobility can only last so long though. It has its limits. Those limits are just really high

I can warp across the map every 10 seconds. *mic drop*

[Jkap_Goat]

Im glad Summoner is a real summoner, which a summoner is suppose to summon powerful beings to aid them in battle.

Im not saying that the summoner itself should be weak and not fight along side the primal but to have summoner identity revolving around DoTs...yeah that wasnt a summoner, that was a green mage.

[Taranok]

*snip*

I see the miscommunication now. It shouldn't be that bad because having GCD summons means you can't Summon->try to aetherpact/barrier->summon again. You can only use the aetherpact ability (and barrier) if the pet is up, and as soon as you cast a single spell that will desummon the pet, it goes on cooldown. Actually, putting the summons on GCDs looks to be a direct attempt to prevent ghosting when combined with having literally 1 DPS skill the pet does per 2? minutes, and the rest is barriers you can only use for downtime.

Having the summons be on oGCDs would actually be more likely to cause ghosting than having it on the GCD. You can see it in Larryzaur's video very clearly.

Theoretically you might be able to create a ghosting issue as it comes up as castable between GCDs at the end of an instant GCD at the end of a Demi going into an instant attunement, it's hard to say if this is an actual problem though. Unfortunately that literally has to be seen to see how the AI works with queueing it vs the summon itself, and since you want to do it before going into the demi phase, it shouldn't be an actual problem.

The end result is, if you have a weird spat of downtime meaning you need to clip an attunement, you do this by doing the attunement for the mega hit, doing about 2 GCDs so that the stupid pet can get back and have time to cast aetherpact (or just aetherpact before the boss is retargetable, then do something like titan, then summon demis), the lag time between pressing the oGCD and doing the buff looks to be pretty close to instant, and since it's an oGCD vs a GCD demi summon, you demi summon after the pet's had time to cast it.

Because the GCD summons instantly lock you out of the oGCD, you'd need to force a situation where the pet desummons, does a thing, resummons into a lockout, and then instantly desummons while also trying to cast not-aetherpact. So yes, it's theoretically possible, just ready the pitchforks if this actually happens.

[Karshan]

Can't help but think all this drama is due to Square original sin : not leaving the job brand as Arcanist, but slapping the Summoner name on it. Alas for them, Summoner name comes with a TM in Final Fantasy series, and this name comes with gameplay expectations (mostly a big primal coming and doing a massive attack or a set of massive attacks, then leaving). Expectations that were not met at all. Demis felt like a good bridge between MMO and Solo final fantasy, but if all primals were acting like demis the rotation would be even more simple and boring than the one prospected here. They have to find different mechs for lesser and elder primals, and they are trying this out.

It was a good MMO class, but a poor iteration of Final Fantasy Summoner TM. So in a sense I'm glad they start to act on it BUT there could have been other ways. My issue is that they deprived people of gameplay parts that can't be found elsewhere now, and people who are more pet and DoT inclined are only left to hope for the new classes in 2 years, which is sad.

[Nizzi]

As someone who is excited to try the new Summoner rework and will be playing it through the MSQ along with Scholar, seeing people in these threads antagonize, mock and jeer at those who are upset the thing they liked is getting taken away really does put a damper on my enthusiasm for it. You've already gotten what you wanted, but clearly that isn't enough for you.

Great community, by the way!

[Taranok]

Can't help but think all this drama is due to Square original sin : not leaving the job brand as Arcanist, but slapping the Summoner name on it. Alas for them, Summoner name comes with a TM in Final Fantasy series, and this name comes with gameplay expectations (mostly a big primal coming and doing a massive attack or a set of massive attacks, then leaving). Expectations that were not met at all. Demis felt like a good bridge between MMO and Solo final fantasy, but if all primals were acting like demis the rotation would be even more simple and boring than the one prospected here. They have to find different mechs for lesser and elder primals, and they are trying this out.

It was a good MMO class, but a poor iteration of Final Fantasy Summoner TM. So in a sense I'm glad they start to act on it BUT there could have been other ways. My issue is that they deprived people of gameplay parts that can't be found elsewhere now, and people who are more pet and DoT inclined are only left to hope for the new classes in 2 years, which is sad.

Actually, if the devs leaned into FBT from ShB a bit more heavily, they could have made a rather fun demi rotation. Namely, Bahamut for a single button mashathon (and some oGCDs to supplement it), Phoenix for the "rocker" style 1-2 combo. They could have done something unique for the other 'demis' as well, like a 1-2-1-3 combo, all with skill replaces.

They surprisingly chose a "simpler" route, but with how often the rotation legitimately changes up, it's shaping up to be fun. An endless string of simple rotations that are all different from each other in texture is kind of what I like about ShB's rotation already.

[Taranok]

It's normal people are angry about the change, if they liked the job as a dot mage and it gets completely reworked into a different job after so many years it's bound to piss people off, bad decision imo.
I never liked SMN as a dot mage (despite being a big wow warlock fan back in the day), I welcome the change and I can't wait to try it (finally a real summoner), but imo they should have handled it via making it two different jobs.
Summoner -> the reworked version that actually summons
A new class that's a full-fledged dot mage and perhaps replacing the mini summons by void shades or whatever.

This can never work. DoT management classes don't fit well within FFXIV, primarily because of DoT snapshotting. The sheer level of power that a well-executed DoT class abusing snapshotting could have is basically impossible to balance, and this style was killed back in Stormblood during the great DoT purge and simplification.

One day, maybe the devs can fix snapshotting and make a useful DoT class. I'd love to see it because, despite personally hating it these days, it is a valid playstyle. But until they can do actually fun interactions with DoTS (extensions that don't make make a snapshot problem worse, ticking at different rates esp. if an oGCD is used for burst, GCDs that extend DoTs inately, etc). The end result is you can't really do anything interesting except abuse snapshotting. Which, while it can be fun, again is impossible to balance, as you can't really teach new players how to abuse your server architecture as a game mechanic, but knowing it exists makes a world of difference to overall class power.

[Roda]

My favorite take on dot classes dont' just sprinkle a bunch of dots that they have to upkeep over the course of a fight, but ones that STACK one to three short-ish duration dots that increase in potency the more stacks they have.
(think gw2 condi builds, or wildstar's esper)
So like, each stack has their own timer and will cascade off over time if you don't keep applying them, but high stacks would be a measure of uptime and skillful rotation execution. Add that with some proc-based priority systems a la bard, and *chef's kiss* perfection!

The constant reapplying of dots means snapshotting won't be too oppressive, and having stacks of a few dots instead of a bunch of individual dots means you won't run into the issue of debuff caps in largescale content.
(would probably require a minor ui overhaul to see like the shortest duration + the longest duration timer on the same debuff, but that shouldn't be too convoluted)

[zcrash970]

I can warp across the map every 10 seconds. *mic drop*

To a party member or to ley lines that not an actual warp but a high speed slide.
Needs an instant cast before to be efficient to not lose DPS

[MagiusNecros]

To a party member or to ley lines that not an actual warp but a high speed slide.
Needs an instant cast before to be efficient to not lose DPS

And I can do it every 10 seconds. And if I want I can play Black Mage Pinball if I drop my lines too.