why so much players have a rush mentality

[SturmChurro]

Well I was curious so I decided to ask a GM in support chat about it. Sorry if the text is a little small, I didn't want to crop out any of the image.

So you're telling me customer support was telling you pretty much exactly what I was saying? However, "pulling a tank forward" is not the same as pulling a tank into a group of active adds, who are most likely using AOE attacks, to compel them into pulling more. That customer rep referred to rescue's actual function. At the very least if you are going to do it, be very careful to avoid pulling them into add's aoes, otherwise it's not a good look! Anyway, I did chuckle at the reference to a "crumb trail" in the chat, since I also previously sarcastically stated:

I suggest players use the chat function to communicate their intent! Both the tank choosing to not pick up the adds and the healer rescuing the tank into AoEs!

You put your intent in chat, you get banned!

[Xirean]

So you're telling me customer support was telling you pretty much exactly what I was saying? However, "pulling a tank forward" is not the same as pulling a tank into a group of active adds, who are most likely using AOE attacks, to compel them into pulling more. At the very least if you are going to do it, be very careful to avoid pulling them into add's aoes, otherwise it's not a good look! Anyway, that customer rep referred to rescues actual function. I did chuckle at the reference to a "crumb trail" in the chat, since I also previously sarcastically stated:

Uh no. You said it was griefing to use rescue the way describe in the screen shots. Now you're trying to change what you said after the fact. Also as stated earlier by me. You can't really pull a tank into a group of mobs. They often are not close enough to make that happen. So pulling them forward is as close to that as you can get. And like I also said earlier, using rescue to get someone killed is actually considered griefing. The only part of this that goes against what I said is tanks turning off their tank stance not being considered griefing. Which I'm fine with especially as they confirmed that it is something to use the kick function for. They also technically confirmed that kicking people for pulling mobs to the tank is also ok. I think that one would just come down to what the group wants.

Edit: Actually hold up. How do you think people use rescue to get a tank to pull bigger? It sounds like you think the healer pulls the mobs then uses rescue on the tank. It's either one or the other. Nobody does both at the same time, that's ridiculous.

[SturmChurro]

Uh no. You said it was griefing to use rescue the way describe in the screen shots. Now you're trying to change what you said after the fact. Also as stated earlier by me. You can't really pull a tank into a group of mobs. They often are not close enough to make that happen. So pulling them forward is as close to that as you can get. And like I also said earlier, using rescue to get someone killed is actually considered griefing. The only part of this that goes against what I said is tanks turning off their tank stance not being considered griefing. Which I'm fine with especially as they confirmed that it is something to use the kick function for. They also technically confirmed that kicking people for pulling mobs to the tank is also ok. I think that one would just come down to what the group wants.

Here is the context of my posts, as I was replying to this post:

[There is some nuance here which I have addressed before. It's nuisance behavior either way, but it's only bannable, if it's actually rescued into danger, and intent is left in the chat. It is not proper usage of rescue. I digress. Done with this bit after several posts (probably none left), so I'll just leave it here.

Even better if a tank turning off their stance and not participating, actually wasn't considered griefing, and wasn't bannable (which it is if someone stated they aren't playing due to a disagreement - since players have literally been banned for it). The word is set then! If a tank decides on the philosophy of "you pull it you tank it", it's simply a disagreement! There is no reason to complain here, just use the kick function as has been suggested here for several years.

If the healer pulls some mobs and then uses rescue on the tank, those mobs still won't agro onto the tank. The tank would still have to hit them after. And even if the healer did that, it's a stupid thing to do. Either pull the mobs yourself and take them to the tank or move the tank closer to where the next mobs are.

Yes, an active group who will be dropping aoes, there is potential for them to be dropped into an aoe, and I guarantee you there are healers actively pulling tanks into danger. Which is why I have been referring to them as "active" groups. Actually done with this though, as I can't continue an argument on here.

--

...

I have not even approved of "you pull it, you tank it" on here. I'm being sarcastic. I even put a /s in one of my earlier posts actually on this. I have voiced my disapproval several times in the past. Probably in one or two of these recent threads even.

[Jijifli]

Then I'd like users to reflect, and stop faulting tanks for killing healers and DPS who pull for them them, as they are "communicating" their intent, in a very similar fashion.

If your "communication" requires killing potentially three party members intentionally because of one person, you have poor communication skills.

If you hate it so much, finish the pull, by tanking it, like you're meant to, and then speak your issue. Even if my personal opinion is a tank that doesn't pull big isn't even a tank, you going "I really don't feel comfortable with big pulls yet, please slow down" will 99% of the time win you the favor of someone in the party and they will kick the person.

I absolutely hate this stupid idea of justifying tanks killing party members, or healers killing party members, or dps killing party members, anyone doing it. One tank I very much recall decided to do that very thing, drop stance to make me die to mobs, not even because I pulled, but because... Get this... I COMPLIMENTED HIM. We had trouble with a pull, where he didn't use cooldowns, and I asked him to use them earlier so they can mitigate more, and when he did I complimented him to enforce the "Good job" vibes that'd give, and he responded by intentionally dropping stance for next pull so I'd get aggro and die, even putting it back up the second I went down to grab them back before it could kill anything else. I think we can all agree that isn't cool, right? But that's what "Tanks are the leaders" mentally does. Even compliments hurt their ego.

I have not even approved of "you pull it, you tank it" on here. I'm being sarcastic. I even put a /s in one of my earlier posts actually on this. I have voiced my disapproval several times in the past. Probably in one or two of these recent threads even.

Dang guys, watch out, it was just a prank. I'm sure my DF experiences are also all just pranks, bro. Man, got me good, 10/10 prank. Would prank again.

[Xirean]

Here is the context of my posts, as I was replying to this post:



Does this say pull forward? Or does it say rescuing the tank 'into' another pack? This is the quote I originally replied to. I digress.

Even better if a tank turning off their stance and not participating, actually wasn't considered griefing, and wasn't bannable (which it is if someone stated they aren't playing due to a disagreement - since players have literally been banned for it). The word is set then! If a tank decides on the philosophy you pull it you tank it, it's simply a disagreement! There is no reason to complain here, just use the kick function has been suggested for several years.

My god you really like to split words here. There is no way possible to use rescue to pull a tank into a mob in order to get the mob to agro onto them, except maybe MAYBE in Hauke Manor or deep dungeon where mobs roam around corners and can get between you. The only way you're going to ever be able to rescue to get a tank to pull more is if you use it to move them forward and they continue to walk forward. If the healer pulls some mobs and then uses rescue on the tank, those mobs still won't agro onto the tank. The tank would still have to hit them after. And even if the healer did that, it's a stupid thing to do. Either pull the mobs yourself and take them to the tank or move the tank closer to where the next mobs are. Guess which one is more common?

[SturmChurro]

Dang guys, watch out, it was just a prank. I'm sure my DF experiences are also all just pranks, bro. Man, got me good, 10/10 prank. Would prank again.

Do I really need to go into my post history and pull up several quotes of mine? Have to waste one of my last posts on this.

It's crazy how people can outright grief in this game, and even get defended for it.

Both the tank choosing to not pick up the adds and the healer rescuing the tank into AoEs! Here's the secret... It's both griefing!

(...) I gave a fairly neutral position, cited saving time, and to prevent potential party wipes, a tank should do their job. I also suggested the kick function. By the way, a player choosing to not do their job is actually bannable. It's griefing plain and simple.

The tank could also do their job, regardless of whether a DPS pulls or not. Some may not like it, and that's what a kick function is for. Just as they can be kicked, the tank can be kicked too.

(...)For that matter, one would have to actually be griefing to make it a thing, such as actively avoiding hitting their add(s).

(...)a player can be viewed as intent to be disruptive, because a player who is willfully not participating in content - and stating such - is disrupting the gameplay experience for the player(s) who pulled.

Hate to break it to you guys, but griefing is likely very common in this game. As long as there is no actual admission in chat to doing such, or just blatantly doing so, it might as well be non-actionable

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Frankly, I think zooming through these dungeons is the proper way to do them.

You're not supposed to, no. Is it preferred? For the most part, yeah. I'd say this to most new players, once you get the hang of the dungeons it should be routine to pull more.

It's quite obvious that in this game they expect players to pull more than one pack at a time

(...) I do pull as large as possible in the majority of dungeons. I don't really ever have anybody running in front of me or pulling for me.

(...) you get tanks who single pull, and/or healers who can't heal. Literally can't win.

It's not like it's something I haven't been known for on these forums. Much of my older 'Tales from Duty Finder' posts were me being extremely hyperbolic. It is just me being sarcastic, plain and simple. I was annoyed at the discussion seemingly justifying the improper usage of rescue, which I also consider griefing, but I have already gone over that part several times. Frankly, I have been very tame on here.

I absolutely hate this stupid idea of justifying tanks killing party members, or healers killing party members, or dps killing party members, anyone doing it. One tank I very much recall decided to do that very thing, drop stance to make me die to mobs, not even because I pulled, but because... Get this... I COMPLIMENTED HIM. We had trouble with a pull, where he didn't use cooldowns, and I asked him to use them earlier so they can mitigate more, and when he did I complimented him to enforce the "Good job" vibes that'd give, and he responded by intentionally dropping stance for next pull so I'd get aggro and die, even putting it back up the second I went down to grab them back before it could kill anything else. I think we can all agree that isn't cool, right? But that's what "Tanks are the leaders" mentally does. Even compliments hurt their ego.

Yes, and this is why I also always suggest to not chat in this game. The tank didn't take that as a compliment, they probably actually took it as being patronizing. Which this community very often does.

No, even if I don't think people should be actively chatting, I do not think griefing, either by rescuing a tank, or refusing to tank, are proper forms of communication. Run ahead if you so choose, just don't rescue a tank to encourage them to "pull more", just pull more yourself and bring them to the tank. A tank shouldn't refuse to play either, and get players killed, as that is also not a proper form of communication for wanting to pull less. Use the chat only when necessary, kick when needed, or leave when needed.

[Y2K21]

Please teach me. Cause I played on WoW for 17 years. Please do teach me any lessons I might have missed from being over there. Or maybe lessons from other games perhaps.

Tip 1: GCBTW meme exists for a reason

Tip 2: There is a large overlap of people who played WoW that also play FF14

Tip 3: Bring up WoW in Novice Network and watch people explode

[Darksummoner]

Tip 1: GCBTW meme exists for a reason

Tip 2: There is a large overlap of people who played WoW that also play FF14

Tip 3: Bring up WoW in Novice Network and watch people explode

Despite what I have said and what you said and what i think and what you think, I still have not ran into the shitty experiences that he has, so not going to base my time here in FFXIV on his words. Perhaps he needs to change Data Centers. not sure. And thank God I have never went to the Novice Network. I don't have time for a bunch of sensitive ass snowflakes who get all pissy that it is fact that Wow devs are running around grabbing ass in the employee business instead of making a "Great" expansion.

This discussion has been great and all, but I see it going no where. Time to move onto the next post. See you when I see you

[Y2K21]

I don't have time for a bunch of sensitive ass snowflakes who get all pissy that it is fact that Wow devs are running around grabbing ass in the employee business instead of making a "Great" expansion.

Thats kind of a really bad take considering a lot of the stories about incidents took place in years way prior -- like most of this stuff was from the past 10+ years and not just in the past 2, my guy. A culture is ingrained -- it doesnt magically appear out of nowhere.

Like I get youre a Wow refugee, but if you honestly think that the expansion was bad because "they were too busy grabbing asses" when a lot of the issues have been going on for years rather than just WoW coasting on being in a realm with low competition is nonsensical. Especially with how these light to actions shed a negative light onto the old guard of WoW.

(reworded).

[Nethereal]

Was wondering why this was blowing up again. Gatekeeping what is considered communication now? Not sure that's a hill worth dying on.

I kinda feel like tagging the next group with a spell and standing on top of the tank so that the mobs naturally get swept in his AoE rotation is a much simpler and effective way to go about this.

That's the usual go to(and if anything is worse than rescuing a tank in principle), rescuing the tank is usually only done if the space between the next pack is greater than 60yRange.