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  1. #11
    Player
    Taranok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    794
    Character
    Arilaya Syldove
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by QooEr View Post
    No im not. blue mage could have 100 action slots to put on your hotbar and youd still only use around 24-30 spells because a lot of them are redundant or extremely situational. If BLU had 30 action slots and you only needed 25 to do optimal dps you can get by not slotting the last 5. its nothing like intentionally dropping key parts of your kit in other jobs.

    if you wanted to use the BLM example, its more like not putting blizzard 2 and scathe on your hotbar. when was the last time you used those skills?
    Mentor rouletting into the level 15 guildhest, B2 is very useful there. Also if I get thrown into Sastasha, Copperbell, or Tam-Tara or any other sub-freeze dungeon and the tank pulls at least 4 mobs to make it worth casting over a blizzard 1. It's not that uncommon for it to be a DPS gain, it's just also awkward and annoying to use.

    And I still keep Scathe on my hotbar because it's useful for ARR content where it was designed to be an at-will fire 1 replace, well before the devs keep forgetting to upgrade it for the modern rotation.

    Going back to your own point, if the class has that many redundant and useless skills, then there's no reason to even need to increase it over 24 to begin with. Or, better yet, the devs should just lock what abilities could go in what slot so that you're forced to use different styles of skills, such as 3 defensive skills, 12 DPS skills, 5 healing skills, or some other arbitrary delineation and subtype. Going above 24 serves no direct purpose, and arbitrarily saying "Just don't use more if they add more," is really, really bad advice.
    (1)

  2. #12
    Player
    Rongway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,167
    Character
    Cyrillo Rongway
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Taranok View Post
    Or, better yet, the devs should just lock what abilities could go in what slot so that you're forced to use different styles of skills, such as 3 defensive skills, 12 DPS skills, 5 healing skills, or some other arbitrary delineation and subtype.
    Tangent: this is the only way blue mage could ever be converted to a real job and still be a blue mage. Have slots assigned to specific types of actions, unlock slots as you level up, and require all slots up to a duty's minimum level be filled appropriately to enter.
    (4)
    Error 3102 Club, Order of the 52nd Hour

  3. #13
    Player
    Taranok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    794
    Character
    Arilaya Syldove
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Rongway View Post
    Tangent: this is the only way blue mage could ever be converted to a real job and still be a blue mage. Have slots assigned to specific types of actions, unlock slots as you level up, and require all slots up to a duty's minimum level be filled appropriately to enter.
    I mean, as QooEr keeps bringing up, a lot of BLU skills are literally redundant skills. Such as Glass Dance and Leviathan where you'd never use one because it does no damage, but share cooldowns, or Quasar vs J-Kick, where they do the same damage but one is a movement skill. The entire rotation is basically designed around blowing as many cooldowns as you can during moon flute, and short of certain critical skills breaking the game a bit if brought into high levels (Diamondback primarily), the class would actually be an interesting addition into the end-game if the devs had some way to force it into a specific role (probably DPS). I heard one static member describe it as, basically, a Ret Paladin from WoW in principle. Another static member described it as: "If they keep adding new skills, I'll actually need to make choices on which DPS actions I bring." Which shows that 24 is actually a good number to keep it at, if nothing else.

    It's mostly missing an LB3 (SoS when?) and would seriously need some way to limit its more overpowered skills in end-game (Doom, Death, Missiles, Diamondback, EXPLOSION, etc) to really make it fair.
    (0)

  4. #14
    Player
    Grimoire-M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    987
    Character
    Grimoire Mogri
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 90
    Personally I think Libra needs a more generic vulnerability replacement effect so that we can shave 2 buttons and actually have some room for utility actions on DPS. Being able to hybridize is also one of the few aspects of the job I liked pre-70. The other problems with the job mostly stem from lacking spots on the tank and healer side of things. I think a minor defensive cooldown that could be used on allies and get a boost based on your role would add a lot. Adding some kind of MP management tool other than Blood Drain would also be helpful on tanks in particular. I'd also prefer it if we got instant-cast melee-only single target filler as alternatives to the current caster suite to round it out a bit. It doesn't need much more than that unless they're gonna do something to replace Moon Flute.
    (0)
    Petition Thread for "Playable Loporrits": https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/436512-Make-them-Playable-You-Cowards
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    Mechanics are Aesthetics. Graphics don't make interesting gameplay.

  5. #15
    Player
    Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    222
    Character
    Nanot'hrat C'hla'eag
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimoire-M View Post
    Personally I think Libra needs a more generic vulnerability replacement effect so that we can shave 2 buttons and actually have some room for utility actions on DPS. Being able to hybridize is also one of the few aspects of the job I liked pre-70.
    Condensed Libra just needs a fail-safe. Some thing like the Blue Mage can not apply any one of the three Libra-type again, for the next 10 seconds after its application, which would make to fish for a certain one only as bad as up to a maximum fails of two, while also not have a negative side-effect on re-application, since the debuffs have a 30 second duration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimoire-M View Post
    I think a minor defensive cooldown that could be used on allies and get a boost based on your role would add a lot.
    You could just join the rest of us Blue Mages, that this concerns, on the demands for CactGuard improvement BandWagon. CactGuard could be very good, if the Dev Team would just do some thing with it, as it needs a fix, improvement, or even a full rework... Here is my own CactGuard re-design idea, from one of my threads:

    My suggestions are fourfold. #1 / at least remove a big issue.. make it possible to cast on self. This alone would be a notice-able improvement that CactGuard needs. #2 / increase its base effect from 5% for 6 seconds, to 10% for 6 seconds. #3 increase its Aetherial Mimicry: Tank boost from 15% for 6 seconds, to 20% for 10 seconds.
    and #4, a personal idea that I would love to see done with CactGuard. make it the first ever spell to have two different Aetherial Mimicry bonuses. I would love it if CactGuard had a Aetherial Mimicry: Healer bonus that completely changes its effect. My suggestion is "Additional Effect: CactGuard instead creates a barrier around self or the target that absorbs damage equivalent to a heal of 400 potency, when you are under the effect of Aetherial Mimicry: Healer. Duration: 30s. Effect can not be stacked with Scholar's Galvanize or Astrologian's Nocturnal Field."

    for Blue Mage Healers, this would make CactGuard a barrier spell like GobSkin, but CactGuard would be single-target instead, and stronger than GobSkin,
    to make up for it.
    in the case that these ideas of mine would make CactGuard "too good", then for the sake of argument, and for balance, also double the MP cost of CactGuard from 200 to 400, give the Aetherial Mimicry: Tank effect a recast time of 30 seconds, the same recast time as Chelonian Gate and The Rose of Destruction, and give the Aetherial Mimicry: Healer effect a recast time of 15 seconds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimoire-M View Post
    Adding some kind of MP management tool other than Blood Drain would also be helpful on tanks in particular.
    We already have Lucid Dreaming and Magic Hammer, but I can comprehend what you mean... Would you rather suggest another spam-able spell, similar to Blood Drain, or a Spell with a CD, that could be similar to either Magic Hammer or Lucid Dreaming? either would work, for a purpose of MP restoration. alternative suggestion, could also just make Blood Drain and Magic Hammer restore more MP than what they already do.
    (0)
    Last edited by Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai; 10-27-2021 at 04:05 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai View Post
    [...]A much better thing to do with a large amount of actions, too many for a player to use all of the actions, is to create in-class diversity. ...hieh.. my disappointment finds it mind-blowing stupid that FFXIV never did this, and has always done that delete actions nonsense, instead.[...] ------------ [...]"I want you to lower me down into my coffin... so that you can.. let. me. down.. one. last. time." - 6.0 Dark Knight[...]
    [...]"...you want to know.. why I chose to abandon the abyss for the void? ...It is simple. That power of darkness did fail me, so I chose to embrace a new power of the darkness...." - Anahlise, a Reaper[...]

  6. #16
    Player
    Grimoire-M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    987
    Character
    Grimoire Mogri
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai View Post
    Condensed Libra just needs a fail-safe. Some thing like the Blue Mage can not apply any one of the three Libra-type again, for the next 10 seconds after its application, which would make to fish for a certain one only as bad as up to a maximum fails of two, while also not have a negative side-effect on re-application, since the debuffs have a 30 second duration.
    The effect is only barely worth casting once, ideally by a tank. The overall intention here is to open up hotbar space rather than continue the same microgame that kind of stops working in later conten. It is worth noting whatever replaces it would have to be notably weaker to account for applying to all of their effective raid burst though. Like AST card rework level weaker. If that means both have to be used at specific times then that would be the worst case scenario.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai View Post
    You could just join the rest of us Blue Mages, that this concerns, on the demands for CactGuard improvement BandWagon. CactGuard could be very good, if the Dev Team would just do some thing with it, as it needs a fix, improvement, or even a full rework...
    I think a more accurate way to put it might be sustain than defensive. Think Second Wind for DPS, Aurora for tanks, and Tetragrammaton for healers. Cactguard does feel bad but I would keep its changes to the tanks only if able.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai View Post
    We already have Lucid Dreaming and Magic Hammer, but I can comprehend what you mean... Would you rather suggest another spam-able spell, similar to Blood Drain, or a Spell with a CD, that could be similar to either Magic Hammer or Lucid Dreaming? either would work, for a purpose of MP restoration. alternative suggestion, could also just make Blood Drain and Magic Hammer restore more MP than what they already do.
    It could be a way to buff Cactguard to be honest. Gain MP when your target is struck during its duration. It’s not ideal but it works as a decent secondary effect.
    (0)

  7. #17
    Player
    Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    222
    Character
    Nanot'hrat C'hla'eag
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimoire-M View Post
    The effect is only barely worth casting once, ideally by a tank. The overall intention here is to open up hotbar space rather than continue the same microgame that kind of stops working in later content.
    Hmn... If "it is not worth it to use it" is a issue, then what if along with the fail-safe, Condensed Libra is also made stronger? For example, increase the damage dealt increase effect from 5%, up to 7%. I am not certain how to theory-craft that myself, but I am certain that if Condensed Libra has a fail-safe to reduce type-fish fails, and is a little more strong than what it is now, there would be a break point where it becomes a damage-gain and no longer a issue...
    I would rather that the spell receive a fix, than for its unique quirk to receive removal and we gain a simplistic replacement that would be more of a bore, to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimoire-M View Post
    I think a more accurate way to put it might be sustain than defensive. Think Second Wind for DPS, Aurora for tanks, and Tetragrammaton for healers.
    Oh, that is what you meant. I would love for Blue Mage Tanks to have a spell like that... either A self-heal spell similar to Brutal Shell, Storm's Path, and SoulEater, or a stronger self-heal spell with some sort of cost, limitation, or CD, along the lines of things like Abyssal Drain, Nascent Flash, or Thrill of Battle. I would like to play Blue Mage Tank even more, if we had some sort of self-heal like the other tanks, that is not Angel Snack, as the CD is too large, White Wind, as the cost is too large, and can be cast more often than Devour...
    (0)
    Last edited by Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai; 10-28-2021 at 04:16 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai View Post
    [...]A much better thing to do with a large amount of actions, too many for a player to use all of the actions, is to create in-class diversity. ...hieh.. my disappointment finds it mind-blowing stupid that FFXIV never did this, and has always done that delete actions nonsense, instead.[...] ------------ [...]"I want you to lower me down into my coffin... so that you can.. let. me. down.. one. last. time." - 6.0 Dark Knight[...]
    [...]"...you want to know.. why I chose to abandon the abyss for the void? ...It is simple. That power of darkness did fail me, so I chose to embrace a new power of the darkness...." - Anahlise, a Reaper[...]

  8. #18
    Player
    MellowMink's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    640
    Character
    Mello Minkus
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Potentially unpopular opinion, but I think leaving the number where it's at forces you to get more creative and strategic with your selections; there ultimately will be more spells that you consider fun to use than ones that can be currently set to your hotbars, but I think that making the cap notably higher would be less interesting and potentially more overpowered than not. Other people having concerns is still definitely valid though.

    Also, as a controller player who already has all sixteen WXMB buttons visible and accessible at all times, I would really like to not need additional tabs when most of my spell timers are already visible at all times without having to frequently switch tabs, but that's a subjective concern that I'm aware isn't necessarily felt by some other players.
    (1)

  9. #19
    Player
    Raikai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    3,344
    Character
    Arlo Nine-tails
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    I thought that having 24 slots was also part of the whole setup because you had to make a decision in which utilities you would bring other than your rotational actions.
    (2)

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