Are some jobs 'too feminine' in aesthetics?

[KizuyaKatogami]

So there's nothing wrong with masculine outfits that were designed for a male in mind that are ported over to female characters without much change?

Both things are wrong, i never said one and not the other. However, one side is much more prominent than the other. Using real life examples is kind of….weird considering it’s a fantasy game. They can literally use whatever they want for healers but they constantly lean back on the same robe type glams. That’s not to say robes can’t look masculine or at least…more masculine than most do. There’s all kinds of examples you can find in rpg games. SE just seems to think healers=females, tanks=males, like i pointed out before, this is kind of obvious when their art mascots for healers are all female and the mascots for tanks are all males. They have a really old mindset on these things that should be commented on and changed because it isn’t fair to both sides. Again though, my main point is it’s heavily skewed typically to one side, where getting masculine outfits vs the feminine ones are typically rarer. I have numerous examples earlier from raid sets to mogstation.

[Ultaniku]

My impression is that D&D definitely set the tone for clothing choices for video games.

Only True Clerics may wear chain mail and plate armor. They'll bash things with maces and hammers rather than kill things via spells.

True Clerics are Tanks that [sometimes] Heal, and show up in games like, hmmmm, Rift.

Aion has this type of cleric. Shield, mace, chain mail and heals. But can melee in addition to their casted abilities.

[Alaray]

these threads kinda suck 'cuz no one ever gravitates towards a definition of what a "masculine" aesthetic means, there's like a few of "plate armor, spikes and stuff" though that's not inherently masculine and it's just... easier to say "this is the aesthetic I like, edgy Metal Album Cover Fantasy. I don't really like flowery/fae-like aesthetics." A lot more specific and identifies something you actually want.

though if it's /really/ a case for someone to look at WHM and go "i wont play that because it brings my masculinity into question" then you're too insecure to have an opinion and should work that out

[Caurcas]

these threads kinda suck 'cuz no one ever gravitates towards a definition of what a "masculine" aesthetic means, there's like a few of "plate armor, spikes and stuff" though that's not inherently masculine and it's just... easier to say "this is the aesthetic I like, edgy Metal Album Cover Fantasy. I don't really like flowery/fae-like aesthetics." A lot more specific and identifies something you actually want.

though if it's /really/ a case for someone to look at WHM and go "i wont play that because it brings my masculinity into question" then you're too insecure to have an opinion and should work that out

I mean masculine aesthetics refer to clothing and armor that flatter the male frame. Hallmarks of this include broad chest and shoulders aswell as projecting a sense of strength and power. Heavy armor tends to this very well.

[SturmChurro]

Spikes and stuff isn't necessarily a masculine aesthetic - I'd call it neutral. Often times "masculine" gear is actually quite neutral really, and typically can look good on both male and female. It starts looking bad, when something is obviously built with a male frame in mind on a female body; it looks too big, too bulky, etc.. The same can be said about female or "feminine" gear on a male body; a piece that was designed with the female form in mind, won't necessarily look good on a male body. Typically, more feminine aesthetics can't really be considered neutral in the same sense as male pieces, and I think most people can agree on what are modern day feminine aesthetics.

For example, many people like to equate a robe with a dress, but they are quite different.

[Allegor]

Most men are basically flat, that's why clothing that isn't tailored specifically to highlight a woman's curves can be considered unisex, even if it's made "for men". I'd say 'masculine' gear would be stuff that's designed with males in mind, or that a female character wouldn't be able to wear without alterations, like say, an exposed torso or an open shirt, since the female variants would have to have a bra on top, for obvious reasons, or gladiator style armor that's molded to look like pecs and abs - the Uraeus Coat, Hien's outfit, or the melee dps Late Allagan(?) sets come to mind.

many people like to equate a robe with a dress, but they are quite different.

All dresses are robes, not all robes are dresses, therein the confusion, or rather, generalization of the topic.

[MikkoAkure]

Both things are wrong, i never said one and not the other. However, one side is much more prominent than the other. Using real life examples is kind of….weird considering it’s a fantasy game. They can literally use whatever they want for healers but they constantly lean back on the same robe type glams. That’s not to say robes can’t look masculine or at least…more masculine than most do. There’s all kinds of examples you can find in rpg games. SE just seems to think healers=females, tanks=males, like i pointed out before, this is kind of obvious when their art mascots for healers are all female and the mascots for tanks are all males. They have a really old mindset on these things that should be commented on and changed because it isn’t fair to both sides. Again though, my main point is it’s heavily skewed typically to one side, where getting masculine outfits vs the feminine ones are typically rarer. I have numerous examples earlier from raid sets to mogstation.

You still haven't answered what counts as masculine vs feminine.

In Shadowbringers, only 4 of the 9 leveling up sets for healers are actual robe-type outfits. I'd probably say 8 of the 30 or so level 80 sets are robes (not counting duplicates), including one which is a heavily armored robe and an Ascian robe, neither of which I would say were made specifically for female frames and were probably designed on the male midlander body before being ported over. There are a few feminine looking ones and a few neutral looking ones in there too.

The rest of the body pieces range from 2 tribal outfits, an army coat similar to one all classes get, more than a few tunics, the outfit of a male character from FFXII, a lot of coats with long butt capes that plague all classes, a steampunk outfit, a 9S jacket, and an outfit of a female character from NieR.

There's more than just robes there, and there's more than just "feminine" clothing. What is it exactly that you are you looking for? You said earlier in this very thread that "90% of healer glams are feminine" and to me that does not appear to be the case.

And what is wrong with bringing up real world clothing? The game is fantasy, and almost all fantasy games are based on our real world medieval period. All of the level 1-49 gear that was ported over from 1.0 are based on real life outfits. I also mentioned the fantasy genre as a whole and that is also a giant influence on this game's clothing and the vast majority of mage gear in fantasy is robes. That gets translated in this game for higher level gear as "robes with fantasy junk attached", which I guess to you equals "feminine". But like I pointed out, there's more than just that.

[SturmChurro]

Spikes and stuff isn't necessarily a masculine aesthetic - I'd call it neutral. Often times "masculine" gear is actually quite neutral really, and typically can look good on both male and female. It starts looking bad, when something is obviously built with a male frame in mind on a female body; it looks too big, too bulky, etc.. The same can be said about female or "feminine" gear on a male body; a piece that was designed with the female form in mind, won't necessarily look good on a male body. Typically, more feminine aesthetics can't really be considered neutral in the same sense as male pieces, and I think most people can agree on what are modern day feminine aesthetics.

For example, many people like to equate a robe with a dress, but they are quite different.

In continuation, some examples:

One "masculine", one "feminine":


Left: too bulky; accentuates the male form. While it does have a skirt, a skirt itself isn't necessarily feminine. This is in theme with a Roman or Greek Style.

Right: Fairly self explanatory. Low cut top; accentuates the female form. Looks like it was just stretched to fit the male body; little alterations. It would look better as a full top on male, in my opinion.

Neutral:


I chose these examples as one is a full armor set (spiky and stuff), and the second shows quite a bit of skin, while still looking good on both the male and female variants.

Feminine healer sets:

Ravel Keepers is a standout, for not only is it's aesthetic quite feminine, there look to be no alterations to the top, which is quite obviously meant for a female. The White Mage set, is very obviously designed for a female; it's design is that of a Nun.

Neutral:


And one good example of a male only set, that would look good on both (neutral) if it was ported for female characters:

[Katie_Kitty]

pictures and stuff

So women's gear can only show off boobs and everything else is either manly or neutral (except white mage gear which is "very obviously designed for females" for... reasons?)

Let me just say one thing: Regardless of which gender you use, those armor sets with blatant openings in the chest area are super lame and not appealing at all. Armor should be armor, I don't see why women's armor should naturally be expected to leave your chest area completely unguarded. If that's the example of women's gear in this game then count me out lmao.

[SturmChurro]

So women's gear can only show off boobs and everything else is either manly or neutral (except white mage gear which is "very obviously designed for females" for... reasons?)

Let me just say one thing: Regardless of which gender you use, those armor sets with blatant openings in the chest area are super lame and not appealing at all. Armor should be armor, I don't see why women's armor should naturally be expected to leave your chest area completely unguarded. If that's the example of women's gear in this game then count me out lmao.

There's a difference between a feminine aesthetic, and gear designed for a female. I had a feeling I would have to explain why I am of the opinion those examples were designed for females. One looks to take a nun's aesthetic:

A nun is a woman who vows to dedicate her life to religious service

I didn't think I'd have to explain the Ravel Keeper top, but that's a bra. I digress.

I actually had some armor sets that were "feminine" in design that I didn't share, as the post would be too big.

No, a low cut top doesn't necessarily mean it's "feminine", as I shared examples of feminine healer pieces that weren't low cut (a couple not robes), and the Warg set. It's just a way to show off the female form. If more sets of armor incorporated more feminine designs, whether it was low cut or not, I'd consider it feminine. SE just makes much of the actual armor fairly neutral, and often times if it's altered for female, it will be low cut.